backblast & C3 modifier

andrea pagni

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I seems to note a contradiction between c13.8 and C5.34. C13.8 says that during the AF Phase, units firing a “backblast” weapon from a house/rubble hex can ignore the desperation effect as they are supposed to be moving in a clear space to take the shot, so they are only subject to a +2 to hit modifier.
Yet rule 5.34 say literally “…Should such a weapon fire from ground-level rubble/building in the AFPh without Opportunity Fire, the +2 To Hit DRM applies for both conditions and is treated as +4.”
What is the others opinion on this?

andrea

13.8 BACKBLAST: Due to the attendant backblast of these weapons, a PF/PFk, BAZ, PSK, or RCL may not be fired from inside a vehicle, rubble, pillbox, cave, sewer, or building [EXC: Factory and rooftop] without a Desperation (C13.81) penalty. [EXC: Non-Desperation fire from ground-level rubble or the ground floor of a building (but not from pillbox, sewer, or vehicle) is allowed by unpinned units using Opportunity fire or applying the Case C3 To Hi DRM (C5.34), due to the movement which is assumed necessary to move into an alley prior to the shot]. These weapons also may not fire at a target two or more levels higher in an adjacent hex, or directly above them in the same hex.

5.34 CASE C3; LATW: Any LATW firing in the AFPh without Opportunity Fire must add the +2 DRM of Case C3 to its To Hit DR. In addition, those weapons with a Backblast (C13.8) must use this +2 To Hit DRM when firing from ground-level rubble/building unless the firer predesignates that he will risk Desperation penalties (C13.81) or is using Opportunity Fire. Should such a weapon fire from ground-level rubble/building in the AFPh without Opportunity Fire, the +2 To Hit DRM applies for both conditions and is treated as +4. Case C3 is never applicable to Case C or any of its other subcases.
 

Binchois

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No contradiction as far as I can see. C13.6 potentially applies during any fire phase, so the +4 will only apply when a unit is both firing in the AFPh (w/o Opp Fire) and trying to avoid backblast. Meanwhile, the "backblast" penalty (Desperation penalty) referred to is the 1FP attack suffered by the firer, not the +2 avoiding it. So:

C13.8 says that if you fire a "backblast weapon" - at any time - from inside rubble/building (etc.) you will take desperation penalties (no Case C3 +2, but the possible 1FP harm from backblast). It also says that such a unit (if unpinned) on ground level can make such an attack safely by applying Case C instead. NOTE: such a unit using Opp Fire can actually fire a backblast weapon without the +2 and without desperation penalty.

C5.34 (Case C3) states that any LATW which fires is the AFPh (w/o Opp Fire) adds +2 to hit. It then confirms that a backblast weapon under the above discussed conditions must add this +2 to avoid desperation penalty - regardless of fire phase. It concludes by saying that the penalty would be doubled to +4 in the AFPh (w/o Opp Fire).
 
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andrea pagni

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I still see it due to the exception part of 13.8 "[EXC: Non-Desperation fire from ground-level rubble or the ground floor of a building (but not from pillbox, sewer, or vehicle) is allowed by unpinned units using Opportunity fire or applying the Case C3 To Hi DRM (C5.34), due to the movement which is assumed necessary to move into an alley prior to the shot] that would mean having only +2 without having to resort to opportunity fire
 

Binchois

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I still see it due to the exception part of 13.8 "[EXC: Non-Desperation fire from ground-level rubble or the ground floor of a building (but not from pillbox, sewer, or vehicle) is allowed by unpinned units using Opportunity fire or applying the Case C3 To Hi DRM (C5.34), due to the movement which is assumed necessary to move into an alley prior to the shot] that would mean having only +2 without having to resort to opportunity fire
I am not positive what confuses you, I guess. It says that to fire a backblast weapon (from a ground-level building/rubble) without desperation penalty and without Opp Fire is just Case C3 (+2) unless the shot takes place in the AFPh: in which case, +4 (Case C3 doubled).
 

andrea pagni

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I am not positive what confuses you, I guess. It says that to fire a backblast weapon (from a ground-level building/rubble) without desperation penalty and without Opp Fire is just Case C3 (+2) unless the shot takes place in the AFPh: in which case, +4 (Case C3 doubled).

the guilty is the OR in this part of the sentence "by unpinned units using Opportunity fire OR applying the Case C3 ", as it states that in the AFPh it would be only a +2
 

Binchois

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the guilty is the OR in this part of the sentence "by unpinned units using Opportunity fire OR applying the Case C3 ", as it states that in the AFPh it would be only a +2
Why? If you are using Opp Fire, you receive no Case C penalty and no Desperation penalty. Nothing about Case C3 applies to an Opp Firer. If you moved (or didn’t do anything) before the AFPh, Case C3 is applicable. My apologies if I am missing your point, Andrea!
 

andrea pagni

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Why? If you are using Opp Fire, you receive no Case C penalty and no Desperation penalty. Nothing about Case C3 applies to an Opp Firer. If you moved (or didn’t do anything) before the AFPh, Case C3 is applicable. My apologies if I am missing your point, Andrea!
because then it conflicts with the sentence of 5.34.. "Should such a weapon fire from ground-level rubble/building in the AFPh without Opportunity Fire, the +2 To Hit DRM applies for both conditions and is treated as +4. " :(
 

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because then it conflicts with the sentence of 5.34.. "Should such a weapon fire from ground-level rubble/building in the AFPh without Opportunity Fire, the +2 To Hit DRM applies for both conditions and is treated as +4. " :(
That's because using Case C3 to avoid backblast would apply (+2) if firing in the DFPh, MPh, or PFPh. The additional +2 (=+4) applies when you attempt such fire in the AFPh w/o using Opp Fire.
 
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