B9.36 EX-Vehicle Wall Advantage Status

Matt Book

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In the B9.36 Example on Page B10 .....

Why does the T-34 get to choose to be Hull Down or use the Building TEM in N9 from the PzIV in P9, but when the PzIII later in the example moves to P9 (the same hex as the PzIV) the T-34 in N9 can't claim WA for Hull Down status due to claiming in-hex TEM? Wouldn't this be equally applicable vs the PzIV in the same hex from earlier?
 

CTKnudsen

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Don't forget that WA can only be claimed at specific times, per B9.322. In this case, the T-34 can't claim WA because it is eligible for TEM, per B9.32. Despite not having WA, it would still get to choose between the HD and TEM as per B9.36 if it were fired on from P9, as WA doesn't apply to the O9-O10 hexspine, only to hexsides (I think - might be wrong here). The major point here is that while the T-34 can choose defensively, it's lack of WA means that the moving PzIII in O10 keeps its WA over the N9-O10 hexside, and can thus claim HD from the T-34 while moving in O10 and P9.

Remember, you don't necessarily have to claim WA to be able to claim the wall TEM (or HD for vehicles). You only lose the choice when someone has WA over you. Here, the T-34 can claim either HD or TEM in both cases, but at no time will it have WA.
 

Jeff Sewall

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Wall advantage and receiving wall TEM are not necessarily the same. A unit always receives wall TEM from a non-adjacent firer through the wall hexside, even if the target unit does not have Wall Advantage over a different adjacent enemy unit. Therefore, on a shot at the T-34 from P9, since the firer is not adjacent, wall TEM applies. Since it is a building hex, the T-34 may choose either HD status or building TEM.
 

Matt Book

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Here, the T-34 can claim either HD or TEM in both cases, but at no time will it have WA.
Therefore, on a shot at the T-34 from P9, since the firer is not adjacent, wall TEM applies. Since it is a building hex, the T-34 may choose either HD status or building TEM.
Thanks for the replies...

So then the rulebook example is wrong where it states the T-34 can only choose in-hex TEM as a target from the PzIII in P9 since it could claim wall TEM from a non-adjacent firer and thus have HD status. The same would apply to the IS-2 in O8 from the PzIII in P9 just as both the T-34 and the IS-2 were able to choose building TEM or HD Status from the PzIV in P9.
 

jrv

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So then the rulebook example is wrong where it states the T-34 can only choose in-hex TEM as a target from the PzIII in P9 since it could claim wall TEM from a non-adjacent firer and thus have HD status.
The EX is correct AFAIK. Against a non-adjacent firer the T-34 can use either the wall or the building. Against an adjacent firer the T-34 can use either the wall or the building as long as the adjacent firer doesn't have WA. If the adjacent firer has WA, the T-34 can only use the building. The PzIII is adjacent and it has WA, so the T-34 can't use the wall.

JR
 

Matt Book

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The EX is correct AFAIK. Against a non-adjacent firer the T-34 can use either the wall or the building. Against an adjacent firer the T-34 can use either the wall or the building as long as the adjacent firer doesn't have WA. If the adjacent firer has WA, the T-34 can only use the building. The PzIII is adjacent and it has WA, so the T-34 can't use the wall.

JR
In the example the T-34 is in N9 and the PzIV is in P9 (two hexes from each other) and it states the T-34 can choose Building TEM or HD status. Later in the example with the
T-34 still in N9 a different tank (The PzIII) moves into P9 (same hex as the PzIV from earlier setting) it states the T-34 can only claim Building TEM. It should be able to choose either in both situations I would think. It's the same hexes with only a different tank in one of the hexes.
 

jrv

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In the example the T-34 is in N9 and the PzIV is in P9 (two hexes from each other) and it states the T-34 can choose Building TEM or HD status. Later in the example with the T-34 still in N9 a different tank (The PzIII) moves into P9 (same hex as the PzIV from earlier setting) it states the T-34 can only claim Building TEM. It should be able to choose either in both situations I would think. It's the same hexes with only a different tank in one of the hexes.
When the PzIII enters P9, the T-34 cannot claim WA (first sentence of the last paragraph of EX), which is true because the T-34 is eligible for an in-hex TEM. But not being able to claim WA is not the same as being able to use the wall. There is no further discussion in the last paragraph of the EX about attacks against the T-34 nor whether it can claim either/both in-hex TEM or wall against any attacks. In fact once the PzIII leaves O10 it can do either against attacks by either German tank (i.e. from P9) until the PzIII enters hex P8.

JR
 
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CTKnudsen

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Wall Advantage isn't about getting the wall TEM; barring an enemy directly across the hexside who has WA, you can always claim the wall. It's about denying that wall TEM/HD to enemy in adjacent hexes.
 
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