B9.32 Wall Advantage

TomK

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Caveat: The wall advantage rules seem to have been significantly changed from those of 1st edition.

Situation: I have a unit in a fortified ground level stone building that has three wall hex-sides facing the enemy direction of travel. I claimed WA during set-up.

B9.32 states “A unit claiming WA is still considered occupying any obstacle/terrain as it would if not claiming WA for all purposes...”

Q1:
a) Per the above rule will the squad be able to claim the fortified stone building TEM against fire coming across the wall?
b) Against fire not crossing the wall?

B9.322 states “WA must be forfeited immediately if a unit no longer fulfills 9.32 and may be forfeited at any other time.” “...forfeiting WA can never be done between an enemy action being declared and that action being completed...”

Q2:
May a unit that has prep fired forfeit WA after shooting?

V/R
Tom
 

c600g

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Situation: I have a unit in a fortified ground level stone building that has three wall hex-sides facing the enemy direction of travel. I claimed WA during set-up.

B9.32 states “A unit claiming WA is still considered occupying any obstacle/terrain as it would if not claiming WA for all purposes...”

Q1:
a) Per the above rule will the squad be able to claim the fortified stone building TEM against fire coming across the wall?
b) Against fire not crossing the wall?
You omitted the exception at the end of that 9.32 sentence that you quoted (at least in my rules - as you note, the WA rules have been updated):

"A unit claiming WA is still considered occupying any obstacle/terrain as it would if not claiming WA for all purposes (e.g., Concealment Terrain, firing backblast weapon from building)[EXC: 9.31]"

B9.31 States "... A target unit claiming WA (9.32) does not receive in-hex TEM [EXC: Runway (7.3); Air Bursts (9.34)], but receives wall/hedge TEM if applicable ..."

So, A1(a) is no, and A1(b) is also no.

What is interesting is that a unit claiming WA in a hex with a building is still vulnerable to backblast...

Alan
 

jrv

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Situation: I have a unit in a fortified ground level stone building that has three wall hex-sides facing the enemy direction of travel. I claimed WA during set-up.

B9.32 states “A unit claiming WA is still considered occupying any obstacle/terrain as it would if not claiming WA for all purposes...”

Q1:
a) Per the above rule will the squad be able to claim the fortified stone building TEM against fire coming across the wall?
b) Against fire not crossing the wall?

B9.322 states “WA must be forfeited immediately if a unit no longer fulfills 9.32 and may be forfeited at any other time.” “...forfeiting WA can never be done between an enemy action being declared and that action being completed...”

Q2:
May a unit that has prep fired forfeit WA after shooting?
1a) not without dropping WA, which can't be done after an announced attack.
1b) not without dropping WA, which can't be done after an announced attack.
2) yes.

JR
 

jrv

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Wow, this seems like the ultimate in ASL sleaze. Hammer a unit on the whatever table in Prep Fire, then drop WA and not even get shot. This does not see right to me......
Unless it's bocage the LOS is still good to a unit in-hex. This is a known behavior of bocage. It isn't much of an advantage in non-bocage, although you might be able to use stone building TEM, then re-claim WA before the enemy can try to take it. That will leave you with +2 TEM/+1 TEM in the enemy PFPh, though.

JR
 

clubby

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I don't understand the advantage of firing in prep using WA and then dropping it to move back into the building. Unless the unit you're shooting at is adjacent I suppose.
 

jrv

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I don't understand the advantage of firing in prep using WA and then dropping it to move back into the building. Unless the unit you're shooting at is adjacent I suppose.
If bocage is in play, the unit drops out of LOS. If bocage is not in play then holding WA to keep it from an adjacent enemy unit could be one explanation.

JR
 

Ganjulama

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If bocage is in play, the unit drops out of LOS. If bocage is not in play then holding WA to keep it from an adjacent enemy unit could be one explanation.

JR

Yeah, I should have said I was referring to bocage. I hate bocage. If you are in a hex that requires mandatory WA you can't drop you WA, correct?
 

Vinnie

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It is more common to claim WE during the enemy turn to prevent him moving adjacent and claiming the wall and then drop it after movement phase so you get the building tem during advancing fire.
 

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It is more common to claim WE during the enemy turn to prevent him moving adjacent and claiming the wall and then drop it after movement phase so you get the building tem during advancing fire.
Just to clarify...you cannot claim WA vs a moving enemy unit. If you don't already have WA when that enemy moves ADJACENT then that moving enemy has first chance to claim the WA.
A9,.322..."Claiming WA is voluntary [EXC: 9.323], and can be done by a unit at five times: (1) during its setup; (2) at the end of any RPh (step 1.32B of ASOP, ATTACKER first); (3) during its MPh/APh (either as part of, or before/after MF/MP expenditures); (4) when losing HIP status; (5) whenever all enemy units lose/forfeit WA over shared wall/hedge hexsides."
[I added the numbers.]

So one could claim the WA during the RPh, but then you would have the +2 vs you opponent's Prep. If you don't claim WA during RPh then your opponent will be able to grab it as part of movement/advance.
 

Philippe D.

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Bocage with in-hex TEM is very strong defensively because of this "instant skulk". As long as the opponent is not sitting right on the other side of the Bocage hexside and does not have LOS through a non-Bocage hexside, you get to Prep Fire, then avoid all Defensive Fire, then reclaim WA during Advance and regain Concealment before the opponent's turn.

The next best thing is probably a Foxhole next to Bocage - you don't get to Prep and disappear, though.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Just to clarify...you cannot claim WA vs a moving enemy unit. If you don't already have WA when that enemy moves ADJACENT then that moving enemy has first chance to claim the WA.
You can in one situation - "(5) whenever all enemy units lose/forfeit WA over shared wall/hedge hexsides." B9.41 has an example of this.
 

Tater

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You can in one situation - "(5) whenever all enemy units lose/forfeit WA over shared wall/hedge hexsides." B9.41 has an example of this.
I don't see a section B9.41 in my book...

Regardless, if a unit moves ADJACENT to an enemy unit with a wall/hedge between, said moving unit would have to survive DFire unscathed (i.e., unbroken and unpinned) in order to claim/keep WA. So it goes without saying that broken/pinned units lose WA and/or can't claim it.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I don't see a section B9.41 in my book...
That is from the replacement pages from Action Pack #4.

Available as a download here: http://www.multimanpublishing.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=7i6cO0SJhYg=&tabid=107


Regardless, if a unit moves ADJACENT to an enemy unit with a wall/hedge between, said moving unit would have to survive DFire unscathed (i.e., unbroken and unpinned) in order to claim/keep WA. So it goes without saying that broken/pinned units lose WA and/or can't claim it.
I don't think a pinned unit automatically loses WA, in fact I don't even think it can voluntarily forfeit it.
 

jrv

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Regardless, if a unit moves ADJACENT to an enemy unit with a wall/hedge between, said moving unit would have to survive DFire unscathed (i.e., unbroken and unpinned) in order to claim/keep WA. So it goes without saying that broken/pinned units lose WA and/or can't claim it.
When the unit enters it may claim WA immediately if it is able, i.e. before DFF. For example if an enemy unit is in a building hex with a wall, a friendly unit may move into the adjacent hex and claim the wall. It will benefit from the wall for DFF. If it is pinned it will not be able to release WA.

JR
 
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Just to clarify...you cannot claim WA vs a moving enemy unit. If you don't already have WA when that enemy moves ADJACENT then that moving enemy has first chance to claim the WA.
A9,.322..."Claiming WA is voluntary [EXC: 9.323], and can be done by a unit at five times: (1) during its setup; (2) at the end of any RPh (step 1.32B of ASOP, ATTACKER first); (3) during its MPh/APh (either as part of, or before/after MF/MP expenditures); (4) when losing HIP status; (5) whenever all enemy units lose/forfeit WA over shared wall/hedge hexsides."
[I added the numbers.]

So one could claim the WA during the RPh, but then you would have the +2 vs you opponent's Prep. If you don't claim WA during RPh then your opponent will be able to grab it as part of movement/advance.
Except in a common situation where no TEM exists in the hex (apart from bocage) where it is anything but vol.

Which is a major nuisance.
 
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