B28.44 Is a hexside between a building and a rubble hex a "building hexside"?

Robin Reeve

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Hi,
B28.44 says : "
28.44 MINEFIELDS IN BUILDING/TRENCH HEXES: Minefields are allowed in non-Interior Building Hexes but do not attack units entering/exiting those hexes through a building hexside unless using Bypass Movement.
Is a hexside between a rubbled building hex, that was part of a building, and another hex of that building directly attached to it, still a "building hexside" for the B28.44 application of the rule?

IOW, can the British in J4 move to J5 without being attacked by the Minefield in their hex?
29436
(I ruled that the J4-I5 hexside is no more a building hexside)
Thanks in advance for the answers.
 
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clubby

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The rubble is no longer a building so I believe they're attacked.
 

Robin Reeve

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Thanks.
That was my line of reasoning.
 

PresterJohn

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I notice there is an old Q&A:
B25.62 Is rubble, as inherent terrain, “directly attached” to an adjacent building hex of the same building the rubble was created from? Is it “directly attached” to an adjacent building hex of a different building, where the building depiction touches the building/rubble hexside? A. Yes. No. [VFTT #8]
 

Robin Reeve

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Thanks.
So the squad would not be attacked by the minefield... even though the definition of "building hexside" remains unclear.
 

PresterJohn

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I was wondering if there was still a "building hexside" existing. There are "sort-of" similar rubble issues with rubble negating bypass in narrow streets such that there is no bypassable terrain outside the adjacent separate building. Also there is still a building hexside (albeit impassible) when a terrace building hex is rubbled.

A related question might be "Is the I5/J4 building hexside bypassable?"
 

semenza

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I would say that for minefields it should be determined by whether or not the rubble is part of the same building. Just like if the hex wasn't rubbled. I think that makes sense rules wise and reality wise.

Seth
 

Robin Reeve

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Reality wise, I don't know.
Rubble is not a building, so rules wise there is some uncertainty.
 

clubby

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I would say that for minefields it should be determined by whether or not the rubble is part of the same building. Just like if the hex wasn't rubbled. I think that makes sense rules wise and reality wise.

Seth
I don't think so reality wise. You're not staying inside to move to the rubble. You're moving to another location outside your current hex without the benefit of being inside the building.
 

semenza

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I don't think so reality wise. You're not staying inside to move to the rubble. You're moving to another location outside your current hex without the benefit of being inside the building.
Reality wise maybe outside maybe not. Depends on the nature of the rubble.

Mostly I think it makes sense to determine it that way rules wise.

Seth
 

Robin Reeve

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Mostly I think it makes sense to determine it that way rules wise.
Your ruling may be right, but the definition of what a "building hexside" is remains unclear.
 

klasmalmstrom

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A22.611 seemingly has a definition of what an "orchard hexside" and a "woods hexside" is...

"an orchard or woods hexside (i.e., a hexside shared by two orchard hexes or by two connected woods hexes)"

It wouldn't be a stretch to apply that to "buiding hexside" (or any other "terrain hexside" for that matter), IMO.
 

Robin Reeve

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A22.611 seemingly has a definition of what an "orchard hexside" and a "woods hexside" is...

"an orchard or woods hexside (i.e., a hexside shared by two orchard hexes or by two connected woods hexes)"

It wouldn't be a stretch to apply that to "buiding hexside" (or any other "terrain hexside" for that matter), IMO.
That would mean that a hexside shared by a building and a Rubble hexes is not a building hexside, even if the rubbled hex was part of the building and directly attached to the building hex.
 

klasmalmstrom

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That would mean that a hexside shared by a building and a Rubble hexes is not a building hexside, even if the rubbled hex was part of the building and directly attached to the building hex.
Correct...


With the exception already in B23.71 for a Rowhouse hexside.
The black bar is still there if only one hex is rubbled yes, but I am not sure that still makes that a building hexside. The rubble hex is no longer a "Rowhouse hex".
 

PresterJohn

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Perhaps the fundamental question now is "can the what-was-previously-a-building hexside now be bypassed?"
If it can be bypassed then there is no direct connection and the obligatory minefield attack can occur. If not, then there is a connection and mines can't exist in rubble.
Also there is a difference between rubble and rubble in an ex-building hex with respect to clearance so that may be a (tiny) factor.
I have not bothered to read if any of the rules of the MMP historical modules have had anything to say about this already. That is on the to-do list I suppose.
And I have had opponents who have called it both ways and I have gone along with both positions, however it is probably a more basic rule question that should be put to rest.
 
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