B23.82 Rooftop Concealment loss question

[ross]

Greetings,

We're currently playing the 19AM CG Date of ABTF CGIII and have a question on when/how/if rooftop units lose concealment status.

Let me quote B23.82 first:
"23.82 Concealment: A Rooftop Location is Concealment Terrain only for setup purposes. A unit can remain hidden or concealed on a rooftop only if there are no Good Order enemy ground units within 16 hexes of it that are at the same or higher level with a LOS to it; these same restrictions apply to gaining "?" on a rooftop [EXC: the enemy units need only be unbroken (as opposed to Good Order) to prohibit such gain]. a unit on a rooftop is considered in the building for Searching / Mopping Up purposes."

OK, to me this seems to state that a rooftop unit never loses "?" status to a lower level enemy unless the rooftop unit isn't in Good Order. Is this correct? The rooftop unit won't lose "?" status even if it fires at a lower level (good order) enemy unit?

What if the rooftop unit is a 76mm MTR (which means it can't be Emplaced on the rooftop)?

What if the rooftop unit uses non-AM to enter other rooftop locations along the outside edges of a building?

Here's a cropped snapshot of the units in question in this CG:


Both the DD11.roof and FF11.roof units began this CG Date concealed, and both used prep fire this past PFPh. Do they retain "?" status even though the German units in JJ13 have LOS?

Thanks ahead of time for any help,
Ross

 

[Jazz]

Greetings,


OK, to me this seems to state that a rooftop unit never loses "?" status to a lower level enemy unless the rooftop unit isn't in Good Order. Is this correct? The rooftop unit won't lose "?" status even if it fires at a lower level (good order) enemy unit?

Ross

Ummmm, I don't see it as saying that a ? rooftop unit is excepted from the usual list of ? loss activities. It merely specifies when a ? unit on a rooftop would or would not be able to maintain ? (even without performing any action) when another unit has LOS to it.

The guys on the roof would lose ? if they fire in LOS and within 16 hexes of a GO enemy unit.

 

[alanp]

Rooftop guys are concealed kind of in the sense that Vehicles are concealed in OG; with the 'same- or higher-level' proviso, since HA provides a DRM.

 

[Jazz]

Rooftop guys are concealed kind of in the sense that Vehicles are concealed in OG; with the 'same- or higher-level' proviso, since HA provides a DRM.

Exactly....

 

[CHERDE]

@ross
quote
"OK, to me this seems to state that a rooftop unit never loses "?" status to a lower level enemy unless the rooftop unit isn't in Good Order. Is this correct? "

No - a GO rooftop unit loses concealment in all cases a GO non rooftop unit would lose concealment.
ADDITIONALLY a rooftop unit loses "?"-status when there are "Good Order enemy ground units within 16 hexes of it that are at the same or higher level with a LOS to it;"

quote
"The rooftop unit won't lose "?" status even if it fires at a lower level (good order) enemy unit? "
Here the rooftop unit would lose "?"-status.


@Jazz and alanp
I would agree to Your posts.

:thumup: c

 

[ross]

Thanks again everyone for setting me straight on this rooftop concealment loss question. We immediately enacted the correct rules to our respective rooftop units in our ongoing ABTF CG.

BTW, is there a way to close (or lock-out) this thread now that everyone is in agreement?

edit: cool, I just got promoted!

 

[Jazz]

BTW, is there a way to close (or lock-out) this thread now that everyone is in agreement?

No, it's going to go on for ever....by next week there will be 4 pages of replies and Mosher, Pitman, and Holst will have verbally abused themselves for 3-4 cycles each....

See what you've done?

 

[ross]

No, it's going to go on for ever....by next week there will be 4 pages of replies and Mosher, Pitman, and Holst will have verbally abused themselves for 3-4 cycles each....

See what you've done?

LOL..."The horror. The horror."

maybe we can "Terminate... with extreme prejudice." :hurt: