B20.7 FRIGID/FROZEN: Stream

[BattleSchool]

In scenario FF10, EC is listed as Overcast.

Under the heading "Weather," is the following:
Ground Snow is in effect (E3.72) and all Rain is treated as Falling Snow (E3.71).

The SSR do not make any reference to the stream on board 22.

A) Are we to conclude that the stream is frozen on the basis of the "weather" statement above, especially the reference to E3.72?

B) Or does the stream have to be "designated" as frozen/dry on the scenario card when the scenario designer doesn't want the stream to become a frigid water obstacle?

Two supplementary questions:
1. Should the EC actually read "EC are Snow and Overcast" to reflect the relevant EC DRM (B25.5)?
2. Should "and all Rain is treated as" be replaced with "including" Falling Snow (E3.71)?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

EC are never Overcast - that is a Weather condition. The SSR does need to spell out that Snow, instead of Rain might start to snow though.

Since Ground Snow is in effect, E3.722 comes into effect:
"Ground/Deep Snow turns all marsh/mudflat terrain into Open Ground (B16.8), freezes all streams, and activates all Ice rules (B20.7, B21.6)."

Technically when Ground Snow is in effect, the EC does not need to be specified, it is "Snow" per E3.72.

 

[Eagle4ty]

If Ground Snow is currently in effect (E3.72) then the stream is Frozen as E3.722 is part & parcel of that rule. If, on the other hand, the weather conditions just stated "Overcast" and the time of year/location/SSR of the scenario would produce snow instead of rain and there was no mention of ground snow currently in play, the stream would be considered a Frigid stream (E3.713). As for the supplemental questions as per E3.72 whenever Ground Snow is in effect, the EC are automatically considered Wet. Also E3.71 would answer your 2nd question as whenever Ground Snow is present & Weather Conditions are Overcast all "Rain" DRs will activate Falling Snow instead (E3.71 as stated).

 

[BattleSchool]

EC are never Overcast - that is a Weather condition.

Agreed. The scenario lists it as "EC."

The SSR does need to spell out that Snow, instead of Rain might start to snow though.

Interesting. I would have thought that Falling Snow would be the default, and rain the exception. But I guess it has to do with the fact that Rain is a subset of the Overcast rule. So barring an exception to the contrary on a scenario card, if Deep Snow is in effect and the Weather is Overcast, rain rather than Falling Snow will occur. That makes perfect sense! :wtf:

Since Ground Snow is in effect, E3.722 comes into effect:
"Ground/Deep Snow turns all marsh/mudflat terrain into Open Ground (B16.8), freezes all streams, and activates all Ice rules (B20.7, B21.6)."

I was aware of this but could not understand the inclusion of "designated" in B20.7. The word suggests that "frigid" is the default state unless a stream is designated as frozen. Otherwise when would a non-dry stream be a frigid Water Obstacle if a stream otherwise freezes in the presence of snow?

B20.7 FRIGID/FROZEN: If a stream is designated as frozen, it is treated as a dry stream regardless of depth [EXC: a flooded stream is still one level higher; 20.44]. If a non-dry stream is not frozen, but snow is present, the stream is a frigid Water Obstacle.

To me, B20.7 always appeared to contradict the rules for Ground/Deep Snow. If snow isn't present, how can a stream be frigid?

The answer, it would seem, lies in E3.7. Until now, it never occurred to me that Falling Snow was a "snow state" in its own right. But E3.713 not only drives this point home, but also has a specific reference to "frigid" that is found nowhere else in the "snow rules."

E3.7 SNOW: Snow can exist in several forms and combinations.

E3.713 EC: When Falling Snow is possible, EC are "Moist" (unless Ground/Deep Snow are also present) and all streams are considered frigid.

Conclusion: When Falling Snow is possible, all streams are considered frigid even if snow (the white stuff that some people are made of today) isn't technically present!

This mental exercise also drove home to me the fact that Winter Camouflage (E3.712) is a subset of the Falling Snow rules. How did Sidhu miss the whole Falling Snow and frigid Water Obstacle thing in his Advanced Nuggets?
Has he never played in the snow?

I (think) I get it now. A stream is only a frigid Water Obstacle when Falling Snow is possible, and there is no spoon, I mean snow!

EDIT: There is something of a paradox here too. Falling Snow implies the presence of enough snow for Winter Camouflage to be effective. Presumably, the amount of snow and the ambient temperature are not significant enough to effect the spread of fire, transform terrain, and impede movement.

 

[daniel zucker]

Ahhhh! classic example of confusing Environment (EC) with Weather

 

[clubby]

Apparently the a in Bill Murray's name is silent. And invisible.

 

[BattleSchool]

Ahhhh! classic example of confusing Environment (EC) with Weather

A classic example, quite literally it turns out, can be found in the ASLRB2 EX following A22.62.

A22.62 LEADERSHIP: Leadership modifiers do not apply to a MOL To Kill DR, or to the MOL Check dr, but do apply to any FG attack containing more than four FP factors from a MOL.



EX: It is moderate weather and a 3-3-7 Partisan squad occupies 3X8 and during its PFPh opts to attack a 4-6-7 squad in W9 with a MOL.