Attention Mapmakers: Soviet villages

Pitman

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I think for the most part you need separate one and two-hex fields and you really need them separated by hedges or walls. Otherwise, it will not have the right look or feel.
 

Pitman

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I think in season grain replicates the effect of the fence's movement reduction and LOS hindrance well enough not to need further rules.
Just assume that each field has an inherent fence.

Some fence artwork would look pretty nice, however.
I reject the approach of inherent fences; I think ASL terrain should try to be as naturalistic as possible within ASL conventions.
 

bprobst

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And here we go again with the typical Gamesquad ASL 'correctness/anal retentive' approach to life, I give up with this place, I truly do.
Forgive me for preferring a point/counter-point approach to debate, as opposed to point/random-discussion-of-something-else-not-related. If that makes me "anal", I prefer it to sounding like an idjit who can't pay attention to the topic being addressed. YMMV, clearly.

Same image with fences.
<sigh>

You're just being obstinate.
Yes, obstinately preferring terrain depictions that don't go out of their way to cause potential confusion. Obstinately reading what the rules say, not interpreting them to give me license to dump any old shit onto a canvas and declare it to be a "mapboard". If that's "just being obstinate", than I own it and I'm proud of it.

It is absolutely possible (though not necessarily easy) to design a new ASL mapboard that is completely functional, completely attractive, reasonably authentic to real life and doesn't require writing new rules, breaking existing ones or requiring any suspension of disbelief. Anyone wanting to design a new board and yet doesn't care about any of those conditions is wasting their time and ours.
 

ZenRiver

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It is absolutely possible (though not necessarily easy) to design a new ASL mapboard that is completely functional, completely attractive, reasonably authentic to real life and doesn't require writing new rules, breaking existing ones or requiring any suspension of disbelief. Anyone wanting to design a new board and yet doesn't care about any of those conditions is wasting their time and ours.
So are you saying you liked what I proposed as a sample?
 

Proff3RTR

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Forgive me for preferring a point/counter-point approach to debate, as opposed to point/random-discussion-of-something-else-not-related. If that makes me "anal", I prefer it to sounding like an idjit who can't pay attention to the topic being addressed. YMMV, clearly.



<sigh>



Yes, obstinately preferring terrain depictions that don't go out of their way to cause potential confusion. Obstinately reading what the rules say, not interpreting them to give me license to dump any old shit onto a canvas and declare it to be a "mapboard". If that's "just being obstinate", than I own it and I'm proud of it.

It is absolutely possible (though not necessarily easy) to design a new ASL mapboard that is completely functional, completely attractive, reasonably authentic to real life and doesn't require writing new rules, breaking existing ones or requiring any suspension of disbelief. Anyone wanting to design a new board and yet doesn't care about any of those conditions is wasting their time and ours.
Oh dear, how was my point random? I just pointed out that Bridges do indeed go over Marshes, but as you say, what do I know eh, crack on sweetheart.
 

zgrose

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Obstinately reading what the rules say, not interpreting them to give me license to dump any old shit onto a canvas and declare it to be a "mapboard".
There is no interpretation required. I'll re-quote for you although you clearly will ignore the rulebook for your personal agenda:

"For aesthetic purposes, terrain symbology may extend marginally out of a hex into an adjacent hex of another type..."

For no other reason that "to look nice", terrain may extend out of a hex. It's right there in black-and-white.
 

RobZagnut

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Why? Because I look at the pictures in the original post and they seem pretty straight. So straight that nothing seems to interfere with LOS down them. To design for that effect, the road should run down a hexgrain. The lack of cover also means crossing the street would perilous. Far more perilous than a Snap Shot. To design for that effect, the roads should be in their own hex.

That's why.
Again, why?

There are 50+ mapboards where you can place firelanes to your hearts content. It's nice to see one that forces you to think differently or use a new tactic or two... It's unique with no firelanes. And with hedges every hex between the grainfields LOS is limited left to right.

Overcome and adapt.

Change is good.

Step outside the box.

I'm outta cliches...
 

zgrose

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Again, why?

There are 50+ mapboards where you can place firelanes to your hearts content. It's nice to see one that forces you to think differently or use a new tactic or two... It's unique with no firelanes. And with hedges every hex between the grainfields LOS is limited left to right.

Overcome and adapt.

Change is good.

Step outside the box.

I'm outta cliches...
Seems like you couldn't address any of my points? Sure, the maps are fine. They just aren't representative of the images in the OP nor do they represent a design that achieves their effect. By all means, the more geoboards the better.
 

Philippe D.

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A little bit of terrain depiction showing over the hexside into the next hex doesn't hurt, and is actually what is blocking (infantry) Bypass sometimes. Plus, remember that the rules were written at a time when mapboard printing was way less precise than it is now.

Having some terrain showing up in large patches in other hexes, however, is something that should be avoided. Some of the examples that were posted to this thread have buildings for which bypass occurs in Grain, even though the depictions are far apart.

A mapmaker's job is not just to draw a nice-looking thing. The map must interact correctly with the rules, otherwise it's just a collector's item (and it would probably look better without this pesky hexagon grid and hex numbers).
 

Robin Reeve

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The question is not about being able to place a FL or not.
It is about the fact that the main road along which the houses are stringed seems rather large and straight.
I would also advocate keeping away from hillocks and from non official rulebook terrains.
What would be interesting to know, is what tactics were actually employed to capture those villages - if specific methods were used - so that design for effect kicks in, based on more than speculation (for example on the role that those high fences played, if they did at all).
 

Philippe D.

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Somehow, the long-standing rules of the game, together with their mapboards, make it so that the Fire Lane mechanism is usable in standard village or city fights, to prevent troops from crossing streets. Fire Lanes are only possible in 12 different directions (hex gains and alternate hex grains), but in existing cases, the streets are basically aligned with one of these, making Fire Lanes along them possible.

As a result, a "straight narrow street" (made up of hexside streets) is possible, but by the way Fire Lanes work, it would be immune to them. So, I'd say this terrain type is better off being used to depict narrow streets that also happen to not be straight. There are plenty of twisting narrow streets in small villages that I know; it just doesn't look like the Ukrainian pictures would fit the description.
 

DWPetros

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I have a great interest in the geoboards and have designed and completed about 20 of them for the system. My goal as a designer has always been to balance form and function; to both prepare a playable board and one that’s also geographically true to form. Sometimes it’s worked out that way, sometimes not as much so. Years ago, the goeboard mix was OK, but too generic (‘Springtime in France’). We lacked geographic realism (Eastern Europe / Russia especially, Normandy bocage, etc) and needed a wider variety of board choices. The geographic deficiency was somewhat addressed with the Russian and Normandy APs.

Mark’s original post showing the colorized photos was really interesting. He apparently has a similar view of what we need; geoboards which are both geographically / historically accurate, and ASL-functional as well. We and the system deserve both. I don’t quite agree with him that we don’t have any geoboards that give us the kind of Russian village look that he mentions, but agree that the Russian village terrain that he displayed could and should be better included in our mix of boards. While the upcoming ‘Slaughter at Ponyri’ will help provide the system with realistic looking Russian terrain, we still need more of it in the geoboard mix. I’ve been putting some such geoboard designs already and hope to find someone to translate them via Adobe or similar, and eventually for others to provide them with good scenario designs.
 

DWPetros

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Translate them from what to what? I've got PhotoShop and Illustrator over here and a wife that knows how to wield them.
From my pencil sketch to a computerized version.
 
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