Attention Mapmakers: Soviet villages

jrv

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If you're doing a River, you've done it perfectly. If it's a Valley, the Crestline should be on the other side of the hexsides.
That is commonly done, but crest lines can be on either side of the hexside. It is the designer's choice.

JR
 

xenovin

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Really my next question is: how much of this should be covered in Grain/Brush?.
I've had the same problem. I'm working on something in the Ukraine and account state that the hill was covered in grain and sunflowers. So do you cover the entire thing (which makes it difficult to see anything) or do you make patches giving a feel for the terrain but still playable? I chose the later "design for effect" option but playtesting will give better insight. Here's a snapshot of in progress draft map:
mapCapture.JPG
 

Vinnie

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I've had the same problem. I'm working on something in the Ukraine and account state that the hill was covered in grain and sunflowers. So do you cover the entire thing (which makes it difficult to see anything) or do you make patches giving a feel for the terrain but still playable? I chose the later "design for effect" option but playtesting will give better insight. Here's a snapshot of in progress draft map:
View attachment 5133
Decide on the effect you wish to make then design accordingly. I don't think the whole board should be covered, it would be pretty much unplayable.
 

xenovin

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Decide on the effect you wish to make then design accordingly. I don't think the whole board should be covered, it would be pretty much unplayable.
all grain Is no different than a jungle board. It just depends on how claustrophobic you want the battle to be! The Germans did role up on HIP bunkers in the sunflowers and took a beating. but I agree patches is in the spirit of the thing.
 

Robin Reeve

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all grain Is no different than a jungle board.
If you have valley and hill levels, it is different - for an example, woods (or jungle) hill 39 board offers about no LOS to/from units on it.
Perhaps could one cover the steppe with scrub, which doesn't hinder LOS but still can allow infantry and guns to set up concealed in it?
Or SSR grain so that it only creates half or third Hindrance (to a total Hindrance FRU)?
 

RandyT0001

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all grain Is no different than a jungle board. It just depends on how claustrophobic you want the battle to be! The Germans did role up on HIP bunkers in the sunflowers and took a beating. but I agree patches is in the spirit of the thing.
Is that how the Germans felt during the battle, claustrophobic and cautious to advance? If that is the feeling you want for the player then, yes, 90% hill should be covered in grain (other 10% could be OG, brush or light woods). It might limit LOS much more that a normal ASL scenario but is not that part of the effect you seek to invoke. (Are you SSR a difference between grain and sunflowers? If not, why have two distinct symbols of essentially the same type of ground cover within ASL rules?)
 

Tuomo

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That is commonly done, but crest lines can be on either side of the hexside. It is the designer's choice.
I tried that with the first round of geoboards for Korea, mixing both types of crestline throughout. It helped a lot in terms of being able to depict sharper, more interesting, terrain features, but at some point the playtesters noticed and didn't feel comfortable with the "river crestlines" being used in such a way (ie, on hills). I cleaned them up, making everything a standard hill, and was sad.
 

jrv

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I tried that with the first round of geoboards for Korea, mixing both types of crestline throughout. It helped a lot in terms of being able to depict sharper, more interesting, terrain features, but at some point the playtesters noticed and didn't feel comfortable with the "river crestlines" being used in such a way (ie, on hills). I cleaned them up, making everything a standard hill, and was sad.
I looked over the Korea maps before posting anticipating outside crestlines, but was disappointed. As you say it would be suitable for really jagged terrain, perhaps even in combination with Alpine Hills [B10.211]. Some battlefields in Italy, Norway and the Caucasus Mountains could also use such terrain. New Guinea, Leyte, and Burma might have a use for them too.

JR
 

Paul M. Weir

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I agree with jrv that the FW maps do add to under covered terrain types. We could also do with some hills with medium amount of cover, something between board 39 and 9. The missing numerical sequence one (77?), from what I have partly seen of it goes some way in that direction. Something like 78, but a bit more so.
 

Tuomo

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Fixing up the crestlines to hill-standard. Adding in some Cliffs. Most importantly, adding in Level -2 valley, which enables us to create some double-crestlines, cliffs coming from Level -1, and take the Gully alllll the way dowwwwn to level -3. Because if we can't push the envelope, why do it.

I'm really liking Cliffs these days as a way to create points of interest. They draw your eye and make you think that hex must be good defensive terrain, whereas the reality can be quite different. They channel movement in sometimes-interesting ways. I wish there were Infantry Cliffs vs Vehicle Cliffs, though, because it seems like men can manage to scramble up inclines that might be impassable for vehicles. Yes, that's what double-crestlines can do, but when you don't have three levels to work with, I think Vehicle Cliffs would come in handy.

Next iterations: add some crags for realism, throw in some Gully Cliffs because those are fun, and start adding grain. I can tell you right now, the J10 area is going to get a blob of grain that sits on top of that little Level 0 jut-out and can be SSR'd into a Level 1 hill if need be.

Capture2.PNG
 

Tuomo

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I looked over the Korea maps before posting anticipating outside crestlines, but was disappointed. As you say it would be suitable for really jagged terrain, perhaps even in combination with Alpine Hills [B10.211]. Some battlefields in Italy, Norway and the Caucasus Mountains could also use such terrain. New Guinea, Leyte, and Burma might have a use for them too.
That, plus use of hexside hills and valleys like we see in places on board 24:
Capture3.PNG Capture4.PNG

really make for fun/realistic terrain, IMO at little cost in rules pain. But again, it seems that lots of people would rather play the scenario than play the map, and I can understand that.
 

xenovin

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Fixing up the crestlines to hill-standard. Adding in some Cliffs. Most importantly, adding in Level -2 valley, which enables us to create some double-crestlines, cliffs coming from Level -1, and take the Gully alllll the way dowwwwn to level -3. Because if we can't push the envelope, why do it.

I'm really liking Cliffs these days as a way to create points of interest. They draw your eye and make you think that hex must be good defensive terrain, whereas the reality can be quite different. They channel movement in sometimes-interesting ways. I wish there were Infantry Cliffs vs Vehicle Cliffs, though, because it seems like men can manage to scramble up inclines that might be impassable for vehicles. Yes, that's what double-crestlines can do, but when you don't have three levels to work with, I think Vehicle Cliffs would come in handy.

Next iterations: add some crags for realism, throw in some Gully Cliffs because those are fun, and start adding grain. I can tell you right now, the J10 area is going to get a blob of grain that sits on top of that little Level 0 jut-out and can be SSR'd into a Level 1 hill if need be.

View attachment 5136
I like where you are going here. I've also been thinking about Steppe boards as well and how to model that rolling terrain. You might want to add a few Cliffs along the Level 0 gullies (See Red Barricades map) and I'm still messing around with Level 1 hills, Hillocks, and slopes on Level 0 breaking up the "table top". and as you said, then add grain and it gets a little crazy!
 

xenovin

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Is that how the Germans felt during the battle, claustrophobic and cautious to advance? If that is the feeling you want for the player then, yes, 90% hill should be covered in grain (other 10% could be OG, brush or light woods). It might limit LOS much more that a normal ASL scenario but is not that part of the effect you seek to invoke. (Are you SSR a difference between grain and sunflowers? If not, why have two distinct symbols of essentially the same type of ground cover within ASL rules?)
That was not how the Germans felt as they stormed up the hill and took it on the chin but that would be how ASL players would feel so I've opted for smaller patches at the moment.
 

RandyT0001

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Video captures of combat in a collective village?
scene1.PNGscene2.PNG
scene3.PNGscene4.PNG
scene5.PNGscene6.PNG
 

Fort

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I didn’t read the entire thread. Seems simple to me...make whatever cosmetic effects you want within a hex with the ‘walls/hedges’ just don’t make the ASL walls/hedges. Place the artwork inside the hex and make the entire outline of the building/hedge/wall work like a wooden building. It will look aesthetically pleasing (no contortions to align to a hex grid) and be functional as well.

I may design some, hand it off to Charlie, and then run it to Perry, if I get some time.
 

Rock SgtDan

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To really represent these open Russian plains and balkas well, I think you'd need a number of boards to do this - like with the Desert boards. They would look sort of like our regular boards, with lots of green, Level -1, maybe even Level +1, but otherwise pretty featureless.
And to make the game worth playing, need to change the rout rules. When the board has no Rout Terrain, the fundamentals of the game mechanics break down.
 
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