AT Trenches width

[box car willy]

Would an AT Trench, placed in a hex located between two object, extend from object to object?
For example. There are two woods hexes seperated by one open ground hex. If an AT Trench were placed in the open ground hex, could AFV's simply drive around the trench in by-pass movement?

I do not see a rule stating this like in the roadblock rule, but there is so much that just aint in the rules.

Thanks
Kliest

 

[Brian W]

Would an AT Trench, placed in a hex located between two object, extend from object to object?

No with one HASL specific exception; in RB trenches connect to building hexes, IIRC.

 

[Treadhead]

Re: AT Trenches width + ?

Hello.

B27.55 says that vehicles may enter a Trench hex at the COT of the other terrain in the hex.

Does this mean that Bypass is not an option? Strictly speaking, that's what it seems to suggest.

Or, can one use Bypass in the hex (which is a normal Woods option), pay COT (OG hexside) and Bog DR? This is how I would play it.

Just wondering.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[Brian W]

Re: AT Trenches width + ?

Or, can one use Bypass in the hex (which is a normal Woods option), pay COT (OG hexside) and Bog DR? This is how I would play it.

I believe that is the way it plays.

 

[Klaus Fischer]

B27.54:

27.54 Trench counters are automatically connected to any adjacent
trench counter not separated by a cliff or Water Obstacle. Infantry already
beneath a trench counter may therefore move to a connecting
trench without paying the extra MF to enter/exit the trench which
would normally apply. Infantry moving from one connecting trench to
another are never subject to the FFNAM/FFMO DRM, Snap Shots,
Interdiction, or minefield attacks. The cost to enter a connecting
trench hex is always one MF (unless doubled for a move to higher
elevation) regardless of the other terrain in the hex [EXC: SMOKE].
Even Wire, walls, or hedges have no effect on movement between
connecting trenches (see also 30.8). Units may use Non-Assault
Movement between connecting trenches without loss of concealment.

and

27.56 ANTI-TANK (A-T) DITCH: A SSR may specify placement of
trench counters as an A-T Ditch or obstacle in order to simulate extensive
anti-armor defenses. An A-T Ditch is treated the same as a trench
except that no vehicle may enter an unbridged A-T Ditch and Infantry
must pay two MF plus COT to enter/exit the counter of an A-T
Trench.

:wink:
Any AT-Ditch or Trench would be pretty useless if it could be so easily bypassed. Trenches and AT-Ditches, just like Roadblocks, always connect to the adjacent terrain.
I hope this helps

Klaus

 

[FrankH.]

[/quote]

Any AT-Ditch or Trench would be pretty useless if it could be so easily bypassed. Trenches and AT-Ditches, just like Roadblocks, always connect to the adjacent terrain.
I hope this helps

Klaus[/quote]

Klaus I agree with most of what you said but I think you mean that AT Ditches and Trenches always connect to adjacent AT Ditches and Trenches. and do not always connect to adjacent terrain devoid of AT Ditches and Trenches.

Frank H.

 

[Brian W]

Any AT-Ditch or Trench would be pretty useless if it could be so easily bypassed. Trenches and AT-Ditches, just like Roadblocks, always connect to the adjacent terrain.
I hope this helps

Sorry Klaus, but AT-Ditches do not connect to adjacent obsticles, except in RB. That does make AT ditches useless, unless you have a lot of them. In ASL it is rare to have the expanse of AT obsticles that were built in reality.

 

[Klaus Fischer]

Hmm, I stand corrected
However, if you look at the example and the last sentence(s)

An Infantry unit entrenched in M3 can enter INTO
N3 (that's the Gully) (three MF) without first having to exit above the trench (and could be subject to FFMO/interdiction IN N3), but would first have to exit above the trench if it wished to directly enter Crest status in N3 without first going INTO it; conversely, only from IN N3 can the unit enter M3 (four MF) going directly beneath the trench-and even then only provided that unit's side had set up and/or presently Controls that Trench. The preceding sentence would still apply if M3 were level 1
hex (though the MF costs would then differ).

To me, this indicates that the Trench is connected directly to the Gully. Am I right on the example or am I misreading this completely??
Maybe a Perry Sez would be in order?
Otherwise, noone will ever buy an AT-Ditch anymore - not that I ever did, AT-Ditches are for whiners :wink:
Ciao

Klaus

 

[Brian W]

. Am I right on the example or am I misreading this completely??

Trenches (and AT-Ditches) do "connect" to gullies/wadis. This was put into the ASLRB in Chp F, and is now in the ASLRBv2 Chp B. By connect in this instance I mean that you can move directly from a gully to an ADJACENT tranch.

However, since you cannot bypass a gully, it really doesn't affect vehicular movement to have them connect; it is a bonus for infantry only.

Otherwise, noone will ever buy an AT-Ditch anymore - not that I ever did, AT-Ditches are for whiners

Well, in RB, where they do connect to adjacent buildings per SSR, they are probably worth it at times.

 

[da priest]

...Am I right on the example or am I misreading this completely??...
Klaus

The example illustrates this rule:

B27.6 LOWER-LEVEL LOCATIONS: Infantry beneath a Trench or Sangar (F8.) counter may move/rout/advance/ Withdraw-from-CC directly to any Accessible, non-Crest-status lower-elevation Location without having to first exit to above that trench/sangar.

See Note 3A also.