AT Ditch Breach HBR

Chas

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This appeared to very successful in Crucible of Steel.

We have used in Mannerheim Cross. Something similar used in Peleliu.
I am rewriting to an expanded, one standard.

Looking for feedback on this SBR from Crucible.
Ie, issues, something that could be improved, etc.

Thanks much,
Chas
 

A_T_Great

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This appeared to very successful in Crucible of Steel.

We have used in Mannerheim Cross. Something similar used in Peleliu.
I am rewriting to an expanded, one standard.

Looking for feedback on this SBR from Crucible.
Ie, issues, something that could be improved, etc.

Thanks much,
Chas
Not breach rules, but still necessary.
An infantry unit using the AT ditch for cover, pays more, than an infantry unit just attempting to cross it. I believe it should be required that all infantry spend 2MF+COT and enter the AT-Ditch if they enter the hex containing the AT Ditch counter. They would then need to spend 2MF+COT to exit into the next hex. Both VBM and Infantry Bypass should be prohibited.
 

Chas

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I cant tell if you are referencing the CoS rule or not. It appears that your comments are regurgitating the first paragraph of the rule with different words?????

If you are referencing that paragraph, what specifically are you trying to say should be different?
 

A_T_Great

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I cant tell if you are referencing the CoS rule or not. It appears that your comments are regurgitating the first paragraph of the rule with different words?????

If you are referencing that paragraph, what specifically are you trying to say should be different?
Here is how I read COS Rule 5. If an infantry unit enters the AT Ditch hex, and just wishes to cross the hex, it pays COT to enter the hex, than it pays 2MF+COT to exit. If an infantry unit enters an AT-Ditch hex, with the intention of using it for cover, it pays 2MF+COT to enter the hex and go under the counter, then it pays an additional 2MF+COT when it exits the hex.
My modification would require all infantry to go under the AT-Ditch counter.
 

Stewart

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Here is how I read COS Rule 5. If an infantry unit enters the AT Ditch hex, and just wishes to cross the hex, it pays COT to enter the hex, than it pays 2MF+COT to exit. If an infantry unit enters an AT-Ditch hex, with the intention of using it for cover, it pays 2MF+COT to enter the hex and go under the counter, then it pays an additional 2MF+COT when it exits the hex.
My modification would require all infantry to go under the AT-Ditch counter.
Surely, there are Supports to allow your troops to move through the Ditch easily...Then the ditch would act to Hinder all your forces as well.
AT ditch not AI ditch.
2MF+COT to exit is worse than going up a hill. IF it's -1 Terrain, then make it so. Not some bastardized version.
 

Chas

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Just to put things into perspective. A goal of any of our HBR is to follow the rules to the maximum extent possible, and get the necessary intent with the fewest changes possible.
Our A-T Ditch rule with respect to the previous posts does this and fixes some perceived 'issues'. So one can move into a Trench hex, Foxhole, A-T Ditch hex without entering the Fortification. No need to change that. The fixed things dealt with Bypass and Infantry simply walking over an A-T Ditch. The only complaint could be that it costs 2 MF + COT to leave an A-T Ditch hex no matter what. But this is simply, consistent with other rules, etc.

I could reword some things as part of a rewrite, but I think this part of the HBR is good, easy to understand, meets the intent, etc, so no change is necessary unless someone brings a huge issue to me.

Of course I am willing to take into account any feedback, but the main intent of my query is in the title, A-T Breach.
The reason is more than one way to create the Breach, and want all of the rules to line up for both infantry and vehicles to go through the breach. I still have analysis to do. As is current Vehicles move through as if it were a Gully but at Base Level. I could change to something more like Trail Break at Base Level, 1/2 (or other) MP, etc.
 

daniel zucker

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make the AT ditch hex the same as entering a hex with a fox hole in it. keeps it simple and familiar. IMO it's the same thing game machines wise.
 

Chas

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Completed the rewrite of this rule and being edited.
Basically allows AT Ditch "Breach" by Sappers and Dozers, and both create a Trail Break, no difference between either which makes it easier.
The only real 'change' was going from Gully movement (from CoS) to Trail Break movement for vehicles. Ran through several examples and typically just a 1 MP difference (or same) except in very rare circumstances. The difference is what hex the MP are being used. I think this update is much simpler and streamlined.
 
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