ASLOK Thoughts in the Age of Covid

Plans for attending ASLOK XXXV?

  • Wasn't planning on attending anyway...

    Votes: 46 40.0%
  • Will be there, masks or not...

    Votes: 17 14.8%
  • Will be there, but only if masks are required...

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Will be there, but only if masks aren't required...

    Votes: 4 3.5%
  • Won't be attending due to Covid, but had been planning on it pre-pandemic...

    Votes: 20 17.4%
  • Might be there - depends on how the pandemic develops by the Fall...

    Votes: 20 17.4%
  • Might be there - depends on non-pandemic things like $, vacation, spousal approval, etc...

    Votes: 7 6.1%

  • Total voters
    115
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pitman

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,015
Reaction score
1,937
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
At this point, my fundamental belief is if we are willing to host, then it is up to attendees to determine if they want to take the risk of attending. In a perfect world, I would like to come to a conclusion in June if possible, although if we stay on, we will always be at risk of cancellation if restrictions back slide in the fall unfortunately.

Thanks for any thoughts...
Bret, I think it would be very irresponsible to hold an ASL tournament in 2020. Social distancing is not possible with ASL and the game requires people to sit opposite each other very close together and breathe in your opponent's direction, while touching many of the same game pieces, for hours at a time, and days at a time. If even a single person comes in with the coronavirus, that person has a very good chance of infecting dozens of people through the course of the event.

Moreover, those people will leave and go home and infect other people.

Look what is happening in churches: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm

ASLOK 2020 would have been my 20th ASLOK and my 20th in a row. But I would not go this year if it were held (which I hope it would not be), because I could easily become infected and possibly spread the virus to others before I even knew it. I will hate like heck to miss it, but it's the only rational thing to do. Long public events in close quarters in closed spaces are just dangerous right now.

Reach out to the Cuyahoga County Board of Health and ask them if they think it would be wise to hold such an event in early October. I can't imagine they would want you to do so.

We have a responsibility not only to ourselves and to our loved ones but to the general public as well.
 

cifdale

Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
266
Reaction score
74
Location
Grand Rapids, Mi.
Country
llUnited States
I am currently on the fence about attending as my wife and I are both diabetics. I have been wearing a mask when I go out as the health people say it is necessary, but I certainly do not enjoy it. On the positive side I could dispense with mouthwash as no one would smell my breath, The only bathroom I would use at the convention site would be the one in my room, and at my age peeing every hour is a strict necessity.
 

Pitman

Elder Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2003
Messages
14,015
Reaction score
1,937
Location
Columbus, OH
Country
llUnited States
I am currently on the fence about attending as my wife and I are both diabetics. I have been wearing a mask when I go out as the health people say it is necessary, but I certainly do not enjoy it. On the positive side I could dispense with mouthwash as no one would smell my breath, The only bathroom I would use at the convention site would be the one in my room, and at my age peeing every hour is a strict necessity.
I honestly don't understand how you could possibly be "on the fence" about attending. You have a vulnerable condition AND your wife does, too. How is a game worth that risk?
 

cifdale

Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
266
Reaction score
74
Location
Grand Rapids, Mi.
Country
llUnited States
Bret, I think it would be very irresponsible to hold an ASL tournament in 2020. Social distancing is not possible with ASL and the game requires people to sit opposite each other very close together and breathe in your opponent's direction, while touching many of the same game pieces, for hours at a time, and days at a time. If even a single person comes in with the coronavirus, that person has a very good chance of infecting dozens of people through the course of the event.

Moreover, those people will leave and go home and infect other people.

Look what is happening in churches: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm

ASLOK 2020 would have been my 20th ASLOK and my 20th in a row. But I would not go this year if it were held (which I hope it would not be), because I could easily become infected and possibly spread the virus to others before I even knew it. I will hate like heck to miss it, but it's the only rational thing to do. Long public events in close quarters in closed spaces are just dangerous right now.

Reach out to the Cuyahoga County Board of Health and ask them if they think it would be wise to hold such an event in early October. I can't imagine they would want you to do so.

We have a responsibility not only to ourselves and to our loved ones but to the general public as well.
Our church has been open for the last 3 weeks and we take extraordinary precautions to protect our congregation. Everyone wears masks at all times, all ushers and servers wear disposable gloves, no hand shaking, no hugging, no common cup for wine, no hymnals or pencils or materials of any kind in the pews, social distancing is enforced and when services are over everyone is told to leave the church immediately after service, but only when the ushers dismiss your row(to maintain distance) . I believe it is possible to hold church services safely if these precautions are followed. it should also be noted that the church is cleaned and sanitized after services are over.
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,275
Reaction score
1,004
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
Now, with this deadly disease, the Tampa ASL Group has not played ASL since January 2020.
Doesn't anyone in Tampa know how to use VASL?

Not playing ftf sucks balls, but not playing ASL at all sucks even more, especially when there's no reason to do that.
 

Actionjick

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
737
Reaction score
522
Country
llUnited States
I honestly don't understand how you could possibly be "on the fence" about attending. You have a vulnerable condition AND your wife does, too. How is a game worth that risk?
Mark I quite agree with you as to the inadvisability of holding a ftf event in the current situation. I've expressed this view in a previous thread. However I don't think it is appropriate to question a person's decision about attending or hosting an event. These are adults, presumably capable of making rational choices for themselves. It is quite appropriate to present facts but after those facts are presented let the individual make their decision and respect it, even if you disagree.

Aside from the lack of desire to attend ASLOk ( just not the same for me without Fish ) I wouldn't attend because of the virus. My choice.

I come to this site as a refugium from the real world. Let's be civil to each other and concentrate on the game we all care about so much.
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,275
Reaction score
1,004
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
These are adults, presumably capable of making rational choices for themselves.
Presumably, you've not actually met many adults.

Being capable of making rational choices does not automatically mean that rational choices are actually made.

One need only consider the number of people who are killed or seriously injured in automobile accidents all around the world. Only a small percentage of them can be classed as due to circumstances utterly beyond the control of all drivers involved in any individual incident. Most are caused by adults making poor decisions that, if they were acting rationally, they would never have made.

If you see someone about to do something that, rationally, they really shouldn't do, it is only sensible to try to convince them that they shouldn't do it. (Assuming, of course, that your methods of convincing them are themselves rational and reasonable.)
 

Evan Sherry

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
1,253
Reaction score
506
Location
Tampa, FL
Country
llUnited States
Mark I quite agree with you as to the inadvisability of holding a ftf event in the current situation. I've expressed this view in a previous thread. However I don't think it is appropriate to question a person's decision about attending or hosting an event. These are adults, presumably capable of making rational choices for themselves. It is quite appropriate to present facts but after those facts are presented let the individual make their decision and respect it, even if you disagree.

Aside from the lack of desire to attend ASLOk ( just not the same for me without Fish ) I wouldn't attend because of the virus. My choice.

I come to this site as a refugium from the real world. Let's be civil to each other and concentrate on the game we all care about so much.
Mark's comments were appropriate and more on topic than most responses in this thread. Bret asked for our thoughts on this. I gave Bret my thoughts and so did Mark. Hosting an ASL tournament in a pandemic is a bad idea. I lost one player last year and I do not want to lose any more of them.
 

bprobst

Elder Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,275
Reaction score
1,004
Location
Melbourne, Australia
First name
Bruce
Country
llAustralia
And yet presumably you're happy to sit at a table and play ASL?

That's all the PC is when you're playing VASL. A table. There are still humans involved, making all of the decisions; you just can't punch them in the nose when they get that Critical Hit on your favourite Tiger.

Even if you're going to isolate yourself this way, I still find it difficult to believe that all of your team are equally sensitive.
 

Evan Sherry

Elder Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
1,253
Reaction score
506
Location
Tampa, FL
Country
llUnited States
And yet presumably you're happy to sit at a table and play ASL?

That's all the PC is when you're playing VASL. A table. There are still humans involved, making all of the decisions; you just can't punch them in the nose when they get that Critical Hit on your favourite Tiger.

Even if you're going to isolate yourself this way, I still find it difficult to believe that all of your team are equally sensitive.
All but one of my regular opponents agree with me regarding VASL. But this thread is not about whether or not Evan Sherry is willing to play VASL. No one cares if I do or do not play VASL. I respect and enjoy your posts so please stay on topic Sir.
 

Actionjick

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
737
Reaction score
522
Country
llUnited States
Mark's comments were appropriate and more on topic than most responses in this thread. Bret asked for our thoughts on this. I gave Bret my thoughts and so did Mark. Hosting an ASL tournament in a pandemic is a bad idea. I lost one player last year and I do not want to lose any more of them.
I agree that his comments were appropriate but once those comments are made just let it go. As I've said I think a ftf event anytime in at least the next year is questionable at best.

Quite sorry about the loss of your friend, believe me I understand. Gaming is just not quite the same when they've gone.
 

Actionjick

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
737
Reaction score
522
Country
llUnited States
Presumably, you've not actually met many adults.

Being capable of making rational choices does not automatically mean that rational choices are actually made.

One need only consider the number of people who are killed or seriously injured in automobile accidents all around the world. Only a small percentage of them can be classed as due to circumstances utterly beyond the control of all drivers involved in any individual incident. Most are caused by adults making poor decisions that, if they were acting rationally, they would never have made.

If you see someone about to do something that, rationally, they really shouldn't do, it is only sensible to try to convince them that they shouldn't do it. (Assuming, of course, that your methods of convincing them are themselves rational and reasonable.)
I quite agree that you should try to prevent someone from trying to do something they shouldn't do. Having been with the same woman since 1976 I've learned that at some point it's better for all concerned if you just let it go.
 

Actionjick

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
737
Reaction score
522
Country
llUnited States
They certainly did, that was two years ago. Last year the World took revenge.

By the way, I would NOT at all be interested in ASLOK on VASL. ASLOK is a special event unlike any other tournament. It has a size and atmosphere and way of running itself that is quite unique. I see no reason to play games with random dudes in the US and World claiming I am at ASLOK.
While I haven't been associated with ASLOk since 1995 your comment about ASLOk being a special event caused me much joy. I thank you and I know Fish would feel the same.
 

Actionjick

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
737
Reaction score
522
Country
llUnited States
While I haven't been associated with ASLOk since 1995 your comment about ASLOk being a special event caused me much joy. I thank you and I know Fish would feel the same.
I have to admit a bottle of wine contributed to the joy I felt.
 

rdw5150

it's just a game
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
8,184
Reaction score
751
Location
Erie, PA
First name
Roger
Country
llUnited States
They certainly did, that was two years ago. Last year the World took revenge.

By the way, I would NOT at all be interested in ASLOK on VASL. ASLOK is a special event unlike any other tournament. It has a size and atmosphere and way of running itself that is quite unique. I see no reason to play games with random dudes in the US and World claiming I am at ASLOK.

Agreed. Zero interest. Less than zero. If I want a game on VASL, I arrange one. ALSOK is special for what it is and the gaming is just part of it.

Peace

roger
 

Ganjulama

Tuco B.P.J. Maria Ramirez
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,119
Reaction score
746
Location
Wilmington, NC
Country
llUnited States
Agreed. Zero interest. Less than zero. If I want a game on VASL, I arrange one. ALSOK is special for what it is and the gaming is just part of it.

Peace

roger
I'm not interested in virtual ASLOK either. I've tried VASL and I just don't enjoy it. I have to play in my home office, surrounded by all the accouterments of work, which means even more screen time. Just not my idea of relaxing and enjoying myself.
 

Jacometti

Elder Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
Messages
3,851
Reaction score
1,707
Location
Halifax, NS
Country
llCanada
I think the poll and opinions expressed are fairly easy to interpret.

About one third of people say they would attend, if the event was held.

About one third of the people say they will not attend, due to COVID-19 conditions/perceived risk.

About one third of the people say they would wait and see what conditions might apply/risk may be closer to the date.

This is of the people who would actually go to ASLOK, of course. The relevant denominator.

I guess that would mean an ASLOK with about 40-50 participants, plus another 20-30 if conditions improved by that time. (EDIT: maybe this number is optimistic....)

The question for Bret and Bill is whether they are able to run/afford the event at this size/scale, manage any COVID-related sensitivities/issues and still have fun.

That is what it seems to boil down to, if we afford ourselves the freedom to ignore the ethical-moral zeal expressed by some honorable gentlemen.

From Ginnard's post, I assume the BBQ would still be on......!
 
Last edited:

davegin

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
280
Reaction score
337
Location
North Olmsted, Ohio
Country
llUnited States
I have attended 32 straight ASLOKs. ASLOK is more than a tournament. ASLOK is a celebration of the game and comraderie of a group of like minded individuals. I am also in what is considered to be in the "high risk" health group being almost 70 and a heavy smoker. I refuse to live what is left of my time in fear of this virus or any other thing that comes down the pike. However, I respect the fear that others might have concerning the virus. If ASLOK is not held this year, I will understand. I hope that is not the case. I am for holding it with no restrictions. I have never had any interest in playing VASL or any other computer games as gaming to me is as much a social interaction as it is a game. I have the utmost respect for Bret and support whatever decision he comes to. I believe the world cup will be a no go as it seems most of the non USA players will be heavily restricted and therefore unable to attend. This will result in an extremely low early attendance and probably bring the tournament back to its original four day format. To me this is the equivalent of reducing a baseball game from 9 to 5 innings. I am not sure how many people would attend a five inning game. So if held, I will be there. If not, I will miss you all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top