ASLOK Thoughts in the Age of Covid

Plans for attending ASLOK XXXV?

  • Wasn't planning on attending anyway...

    Votes: 46 40.0%
  • Will be there, masks or not...

    Votes: 17 14.8%
  • Will be there, but only if masks are required...

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Will be there, but only if masks aren't required...

    Votes: 4 3.5%
  • Won't be attending due to Covid, but had been planning on it pre-pandemic...

    Votes: 20 17.4%
  • Might be there - depends on how the pandemic develops by the Fall...

    Votes: 20 17.4%
  • Might be there - depends on non-pandemic things like $, vacation, spousal approval, etc...

    Votes: 7 6.1%

  • Total voters
    115
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aiabx

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I want to make one point about the supposed "importance" of attending an ASL tournament in these times. Several posters here have suggested that "it's just a GAME" etc etc, and therefore not "worth it".

When I attend an ASL tournament, I

  • feel part of a community of people, with whom I share a passion and interest
  • challenge myself mentally and spiritually
  • break away from the day to day normalcy of life
  • take part in an activity I consider valuable and interesting.
I do not see any difference between this activity and attending a religious service in person.

So if church services are able to operate under these conditions, why would an ASL tournament not be treated the same way? Why in a secular state would someone determine that my spiritual life is less valuable than that of others?
I agree with much of what you say. I just think it would be irresponsible to put other people at risk by attending religious services too.
 

Ric of The LBC

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As a species, through large numbers. As individuals, through luck of the draw on where you caught it, when you caught it, if you caught it, good genetics to get you through, access to medicine or care that got you through, etc. I don't think anyone believes the species will be killed, but there are no guarantees on an individual basis. -- jim
lifestyle choices made have a part.
 

Fort

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Move to Germany. They are far cheaper than they are in the US (which isn't to say they are cheap ;)). I bought my M2 fully loaded for $53K. In the US, it would have run me more than $75K, and in DC--where I lived--it would have likely been between $80K - $85K. That also includes shipping back to the US when I leave (chose from 5 ports, Baltimore and Norfolk are on that list). It has ~410 horsepower and will go 0 - 60 in < 5 seconds. It's not quite as fast as the Mustang I sold when leaving the US, but it corners like it's glued to the road. :) -- jim
Looked at the C8 corvette yesterday. Likely gonna order a ZR1. The C8 base model is a pretty damned great car. Can't buy better performance for the price. Hell. can't buy better performance for twice the price.
 

Sparafucil3

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Looked at the C8 corvette yesterday. Likely gonna order a ZR1. The C8 base model is a pretty damned great car. Can't buy better performance for the price. Hell. can't buy better performance for twice the price.
I don't buy anything but Ford since the bail out. Screw me over, rob me, and then try to sell me your cars? Not happening. But you knew that already when I told that to the UAW workers in Cleveland. ;) -- jim
 

peterd1973

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Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
 

Houlie

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info counters
Taking the thought one step further as another poster did: separate pile, tweezers, each side player uses their own counter set, protocol for who places a counter on a mixed stack (CC/melee for example), etc. The point was: there are ways to navigate sharing and/or touching other people's counters. None particularly complicated, difficult or onerous. Let's not make this harder than it is.
 

Sparafucil3

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Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
From here.
The Supreme Court of the United States has held that the First Amendment protects the right to conduct a peaceful public assembly.[3] The right to assemble is not, however, absolute. Government officials cannot simply prohibit a public assembly in their own discretion,[4] but the government can impose restrictions on the time, place, and manner of peaceful assembly, provided that constitutional safeguards are met.[5] Time, place, and manner restrictions are permissible so long as they “are justified without reference to the content of the regulated speech, . . . are narrowly tailored to serve a significant governmental interest, and . . . leave open ample alternative channels for communication of the information.”[6]

...

The First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public safety or order.[13] Statutes that prohibit people from assembling and using force or violence to accomplish unlawful purposes are permissible under the First Amendment.[14]
First, ASLOk probably doesn't meet the criteria to even be an "assembly". Secondly, Congress is not making the laws, the various states are. You would have to read and quote their constitutions to be relevant here.

This isn't to say I don't support the right of grown ass men to make their own decisions, no matter how hard or long I would argue against the decision they want to make. It's just not up to me. -- jim
 

Michael Dorosh

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Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

As you can guess, there are multiple constitutional discussions going on and will likely do for some time to come.
 

sdennis

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Looked at the C8 corvette yesterday. Likely gonna order a ZR1. The C8 base model is a pretty damned great car. Can't buy better performance for the price. Hell. can't buy better performance for twice the price.
Fort,
For the first time in my life I LOVE a corvette! These are awesome... but I cannot own a rear wheel drive car in Michigan... just won't work at all... can't afford to put it up for the winter either...
 

peterd1973

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I'm pretty sure the First Amendment guarantees our right to socially assemble.

From here.

First, ASLOk probably doesn't meet the criteria to even be an "assembly". Secondly, Congress is not making the laws, the various states are. You would have to read and quote their constitutions to be relevant here.

This isn't to say I don't support the right of grown ass men to make their own decisions, no matter how hard or long I would argue against the decision they want to make. It's just not up to me. -- jim
 

wrongway149

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Taking the thought one step further as another poster did: separate pile, tweezers, each side player uses their own counter set, protocol for who places a counter on a mixed stack (CC/melee for example), etc. The point was: there are ways to navigate sharing and/or touching other people's counters. None particularly complicated, difficult or onerous. Let's not make this harder than it is.
It would probably be easier and more effective to just sanitize hands at the end of each player turn. But as I mentioned up-thread -- another layer wouldn't hurt.
 

Sparafucil3

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I'm pretty sure the First Amendment guarantees our right to socially assemble.
Did you read the limits I posted because there are limits which the Supreme Court has agreed to. For instance the First Amendment does not provide the right to conduct an assembly at which there is a clear and present danger of riot, disorder, or interference with traffic on public streets, or other immediate threat to public safety or order. Last I looked, people were still dying in droves due to the spread of C-19 which, a spread which is accelerated by large groups meeting.
US Court of Appeals 2nd Circuit Oct 2006 said:
That said, First Amendment protections, while broad, are not absolute. Regan v. Boogertman, 984 F.2d 577, 579 (2d Cir. 1993) (citing Elrod v. Burns, 427 U.S. 347, 360, 96 S. Ct. 2673, 49 L. Ed. 2d 547 (1976)). It is axiomatic, for instance, that government officials may stop or disperse public demonstrations or protests where "clear and present danger of riot, disorder, interference with traffic upon the public streets, or other immediate threat to public safety, peace, or order, appears." Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296, 308, 60 S. Ct. 900, 84 L. Ed. 1213 (1940). Indeed, where a public gathering threatened to escalate into racial violence and members of a hostile crowd began voicing physical threats, the Supreme Court expressly sanctioned police action that ended the demonstration and arrested the speaker, who defied police orders to cease and desist. Feiner v. New York, 340 U.S. 315, 317-21, 71 S. Ct. 303, 95 L. Ed. 295 (1951). The police, the Court reasoned, were not "powerless to prevent a breach of the peace" in light of the "imminence of greater disorder" that the situation created. Id. at 321, 71 S. Ct. 303.
 

Fort

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Fort,
For the first time in my life I LOVE a corvette! These are awesome... but I cannot own a rear wheel drive car in Michigan... just won't work at all... can't afford to put it up for the winter either...
The ZR1 will be all wheel drive, mid engine.
 

msoong38

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[snip]
But for the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone would take vacation time to play VASL even for just a couple days. Not to mention the monumental task of organizing a cyber VASL ASLOK (I am not a betting man, but I'd bet a ton Brett is not interested in that).
[snip]
Just so if you are interested in collecting data, I took 3 days off to attend DC Human Wave VASL tourney (and earlier CASLO on VASL). It's been a blast and I made new friend whom I will be engaging later on...
 

Sparafucil3

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Absolutely, Jim! And we will get through this exactly the same way. What was missing in the previous two major pandemics was a 24/7 news cycle on multiple stations with a "if it bleeds, it leads" mentality, frightening the population. I've found it very useful for my own sanity to merely keep the television turned off.
That's just it. We don't have to get through this "the same way". The "same way" is to have thousands of people die to this. The "Novel" in Novel Corona Virus means this is the first time we have seen something like this. It is new. We don't know what we don't know about this. It something man has zero contact with, we don't know the morbidity rate, we don't know the long term effects. What we do know is that it is extremely contagious, easily transmitted through an airborne spread. When it hits, some people have to go to the hospital for some pretty intensive care and need a resource we have in limited supply. At that point, it becomes simple math on how many can get access to that finite resource and how many die. Also, unlike the flu, this transmission of this disease is such that doctors and nurses who are exposed to this are also succumbing to the disease. This is a devil's brew of bad which will land like an earthquake. Already the US cases are on the rise. Already states are looking at what's happening and pausing their re-opening.

I will never tell a grown man what to do, that's not my way. But I will shun you and I will ridicule your choices when I think them dumb. I will get through this because I will take the proper precautions. I will get through this because I live in Germany where we have rational leadership, people who recognize the need for this despite not liking it. I miss a lot of things about America living in Germany. I don't miss the stupid. That's for sure.

Just my opinion, your millage may vary. -- jim
 

Gordon

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Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The constitution is also not a suicide pact.
 

von Marwitz

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Constitution of United States of America 1789 (rev. 1992)

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
The point is that certain rights limit other rights. Rights are generally not absolute. Instead one has to balance various legally protected interests against each other. That is what jurisdiction is all about.

To put it bluntly: The right to bear arms does not allow you to go about and shoot people. Thus if you quote the right to bear arms, that does not mean it is absolute.

The same is true for the right to peacably assemble.

von Marwitz
 

Actionjick

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The point is that certain rights limit other rights. Rights are generally not absolute. Instead one has to balance various legally protected interests against each other. That is what jurisdiction is all about.

To put it bluntly: The right to bear arms does not allow you to go about and shoot people. Thus if you quote the right to bear arms, that does not mean it is absolute.

The same is true for the right to peacably assemble.

von Marwitz
The right to bare arms means you can wear sleeveless shirts.
Arming bears is a whole different can of worms.
 

von Marwitz

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I will never tell a grown man what to do, that's not my way. But I will shun you and I will ridicule your choices when I think them dumb. I will get through this because I will take the proper precautions. I will get through this because I live in Germany where we have rational leadership, people who recognize the need for this despite not liking it. I miss a lot of things about America living in Germany. I don't miss the stupid. That's for sure.
At times, even grown up people need to be told what to do. When necessary to do so, rational leadership is an invaluable advantage, though. As is the readiness to accept other views even if one does not fully agree with them.

Even in Germany, there are some rules regarding Covid that might be questioned. Yet I do accept them because if anyone would do as he pleased the situation would certainly be worse than if everyone follows basically sound rules even if they are imperfect. I am glad not to be exposed to the extent of stupidity that reigns elsewhere.

It is not only a question of who governs and makes the rules but at least as much about personal attitude.

If I were at ASLOK and masks were not required but my opponent asks me to wear one, I would see no issue in doing him the favor even if I would not like masks. He does have a valid concern and it is of neglible inconvenience to me to do him the favor despite not being forced to do so by the rules.

von Marwitz
 
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