ASLML manners and the Spuddies

[Tater]

It has NOTHING to do directly with ASL in fact. It was 100% as a result of the people on it at that time being nothing better than pure scum.

IOW, they disagreed with you and told you why and weren't oh just so gentle about it...

BTW, I must point out the hypocrisy of you calling these folks "pure scum" behind their backs here on the Forum. You seem to be saying that you are some how better than these "pure scum"...yet who is calling who names here? Seems you are in fact no better than they.

Generally, people are truely what they seem.

And what do you think of anyone who calls others "pure scum" behind their back as opposed to their face?

People really are what they show themselves to be.

Hmmm...I guess you are right.

I had only made reference to Rememberence Day, or I guess to a Yank Memorial Day, and what I thought might be a nice way to observe it.

Hehehe...I remember that thread...and that isn't how I remember it. I believe you suggested that the Yanks on the ASLML were wrong for not recognizing all veterans from all nations during the US Memorial Holiday. Apparently you thought Americans were somehow obligated to memorialize (i.e., Memorial Day) the SS and IJA. I found that ideology offensive...just as offensive was having a Canadian tell me how I should observe the US Memorial Holiday. I am pretty sure I voiced that opinion. I don't recall calling anyone names.

And it wasn't just a few remarks, it was a veritable barrage.

I am not surprised...your suggestion was pretty offensive. I guess these folks responded similarly to your response here. The ASLML offended you and here you are referring to those members as "pure scum". Hmmm...doesn't seem that the ASLML reacted any differently than you are.

And for those that are part of the ASLML today, you are eiother the scum I knew then, or you have since joined, and will just have to pay for the actions of past scum that have permanently sullied the name ASLML.

Of course lumping all 900+ members of the ASLML together in your pot-o-scum is a so much better attitude than that displayed by a few ASLML members.

BTW, sorry to burst your bubble Sarge but...we didn't even know you were gone.

Sorry for the rant, but I want people to realise, it isn't always an argument over copywrite and/or who is doing what with ASL.
Sometimes it is purely the result of members being fine examples of all that makes the world lousy sometimes.

I have been reading the Forum for about 4-6 weeks. Your post is the first one where I have seen anyone using derogatory terms for anyone else. Apparently the moderator has no problem with name calling as long as it is the ASLML that is targeted. Seems to me that you, Sarge, are displaying behavior identical to the ASLML right here on the Forum. I think you need to take a long look at the man in the mirror before you start criticizing the behavior of folks from any list/forum.

 

[ericblick]

I am shocked and dismayed that the world is such a morass of discord and hostility. Apparently I have suffered some form of head injury as it has completely escaped my notice that all the ASLML listers are scum.

Including me!

Hmm, I have been divorced, maybe my ex was right...

By golly, I think Les is right after all. I don't want to have my feelings hurt, so will you kindly roll the rock back over the opening in my cave when you leave?

Wouldn't want any scum to infiltrate my little world.

Steve

 

[Aries]

Tater if you wish to support those that caused me to turf the ASLML all those years ago, don't be surprised when I accidentally add you to whatever "ignore" function might be included in the forums here.

I called them scum here, because here is all I will ever be supporting.

Call it hiding if you will, I don't make a habit of hanging out with scum.

If you are a new arrival Tater, I won't hold that against you. But be advised, my actions then were not dishonourable, and my disgust with those persons from that time, has not altered.

For those that don't wish to dig through several years ASLML, my original comment, was wouldn't it be nice if the alcohol selling establishments closed so those that should be grateful for all our past war dead, would at least not be able to treat it as just another holiday and excuse to drink on a long weekend.

You can can that the raving of a fascist commie nazi if it pleases you.

I never make it through Rememberence day without crying over all those "boys" that died for their country, never to grow into old men like I have been aloowed.

Anyone that would find fault in my wishes, is clearly the scum I described.

 

[pryoung]

For those that don't wish to dig through several years ASLML, my original comment, was wouldn't it be nice if the alcohol selling establishments closed so those that should be grateful for all our past war dead, would at least not be able to treat it as just another holiday and excuse to drink on a long weekend.

Aah, yes, the thread that grew out of someone else's recommendation to IIRC hoist a few in memory of those departed soldiers.

Anyway, speaking as someone who read but IIRC did not participate in said kerfuffle, thank you Les for lumping me into the "scum" category, since you divided the entire ASLML into either the "scum" or "since joined" categories. I do appreciate it.

Pete

 

[ericblick]

Yeah, Les, I agree that it IS tragic anytime human beings reach the point that they end up dying for unnecessary or delusional reasons.

ANY human being suffers the same pain, EVEN the enemy. (Remarkable how many vets of both sides have that epiphany while still on the field of battle).

But calling people scum is EXACTLY the sort of behavior that causes other humans to lose their minds and want to fight.

You, sir, are not helping.

Steve

 

[g_young]

Les the Sarge wrote

People really are what they show themselves to be

I have never forgiven the ASLML for it, and it is unlikely I ever will.

You sound quite bitter Les. Forget about the people who you thought dissed you. Just let it go, play the game, have afew laughs and enjoy the company.

ericblick wrote

I agree that it IS tragic anytime human beings reach the point that they end up dying for unnecessary or delusional reasons.

Couldn't agree more.

Cheers
Gaz

 

[da priest]

Oh! Oh! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! I'm scum!

OK, I'm better now...

 

[SamB]

ron wrote:

Oh! Oh! Wailing and gnashing of teeth! I'm scum!

OK, I'm better now...

ah, no.... actually, you are still scum. 8)

 

[Aries]

Ok let me put it another way, and if you guys still can't figure it out, I will cease caring to worry that you ever do (and that measn all of ya).

Say you join a club, a very unique club, very specific interests involved.

After being a casual member of that club, you arrive at a meeting one day, and just because you stupidly comment how it might be nice to remember war dead through a form of personal self sacrifice for one lousy day, you get branded every nasty put down under the sun.

Ok, say it was a large cross section of the club, not all, but pretty much a large portion there of. And they don't settle for just a single put down, it turns into a pure hate invective ridden attack on your name.

You of course are qite aware it wasn't the whole club, and only an idiot thicks I thought it was. But that club has just become a place totally unsuitable to hang out.
A loss to the members that might have been suitable to hang out with.

Are you guys finally cluing in?

Yes I am FULLY aware some of you guys are past long time users of the ASLML as is quite apparent. Some of you have only recently used it.
And I have nooooo way to identify any of you that have wish to use or do not in fact use the ASLML. Maybe you should all wear badges.

I called the scum scum and the scum know who I am referring to.

If you guys wish to join them, go ahead, I ain't going to stop you. It particularly reactionary, and amusing that some of you guys can think so uncritically, and yet be capable of mastering the rather complex minutae of the ASL game actually.

I isolated those that I called scum, I never said each and every member pst present or future was scum. But if you guys wish to say "hey Les just called all the ASLML list is scum" don't expect me to help you out of your self imposed delusion. You guys can all read just fine (or ASL as a game is likely a bad choice in retrospect).

I repeat, people really are the people they reveal themselves to be.

I extend the same privilege here too. You guys can be what you want yourself to be revealed to be at your leisure.

No one has ever said Les the Sarge is a warm fuzzy individual. I speak my mind when the time warrants it. Don't want me to call you what you are, don't shove what you are in my face.

 

[Countertroll]

waah

Tater new? I hardly think so. He was offending people in the ASLML way before you got upset and left Les. But on a serious note let me get this straight.. you will not forgive the Mailing list because people disagreed with you that ALL Nations soldiers should be remembered. Hmm, it is cool to hold a grudge against an online community that disagreed with you, but not cool to hold a grudge against a Nation that you were in a declared war against? That seem a bit silly to me. Perhaps that is becuase I am scum, since I was on the list then, and still am.

 

[Aries]

No I don't get upset over people "disagreeing" with me. I have people disagree with me as often as they agree with me.

No, I got irate over being painted a facist comie pinko nazi freedom usurping (getting the idea yet) individual (oh by the way, they were not interested in distinguishing the difference, those fools thought I was capable of being the entire list at the same time). And for what? ONLY because I saw nothing harmful over beer and liquor stores closing for one day of the year in Canada and or the US.

Sorry, but I never extended this notion originally to the people of the entire planet. Where this notion it was a global wish of mine began is beyond me. But it further supports the idea, some might not be as literate as might be required.

Canada has lost a great many men (and women) in the last 80 some years of armed conflict around the world. The US also. And yes, I know that plenty of other nations have experienced their own suffering. Ain't we just a fine loving race of creature eh.

 

[Bryan Holtby]

I seem to recall the thread also, and it certainly didnt draw any more than 2 or 3 dozen individual replies. Sure, a few of those replied a few times, as is the norm on the list. For sure you didnt get anywhere near a majority of ppl cursing you. Most of the listers refuse to be dragged into flamewars and political discussions. Everyone has an opinion, and just like a certain part of our anatomy, and most of us just keep it to ourselves.

Any time ANY political issue is raised on ANY forum, flames abound. Doesnt matter what side of the fence you are on, ppl disagree, sometimes rather loudly.

If ya want to start a really good flamewar, start a thread about Iraq, US gun laws or any of those silly topics that us Canucks and other non Americans have no business yappin about and have NOTHING to do with ASL. Then sit back and watch the fur fly :lol: I've followed the list long enough to be able to sit back and laugh my ass off at those threads.

I guess the moral of the story is that since we are basically an international community, some things are best left alone. If someone says something stupid it doesnt mean you get all pissy about it and sound off, just laugh at their ignorance and move on.

Its better that way.

 

[EricE]

I can see why they was much name calling ...

"And for what? ONLY because I saw nothing harmful over beer and liquor stores closing for one day of the year in Canada and or the US. "

What are you nuts...... Maybe a moment of silence before store opens or something along those lines...

 

[Aries]

This is going no where.

I need to re think whether I need this forum.

I also need to re think whether I need to just enjoy the ASL I now possess and not bother trying to further the game, and whether ASL is some sort of cursed game for me.

It's rediculous that you guys could even support such a conclusion.

It's ludicruous, of all the personalities I have encountered online in all the years I have been online, you guys take the cake.

I will thank you though, you have made the individuals I had troubles with recently on another forum actually look better. Crazy, I would not have thought that possible.

For those of you that are actually not wanting to be part of this insanity, sorry.

 

[Treadhead]

I for instance, don't hold onto any belief, that the person you are n the net, is in any way different from the guy you are in person at home or at work. We ain't just hiding behind a monitor safe knowing we can turn off the system and all is magically made different.

People really are what they show themselves to be.

Actually, "Sarge", from my study of internet communications, I would suggest that you are probably wrong; the reverse is very likely the case. I believe that studies have shown that people really do take on other personalities when communicating over the internet.

There may be many reasons for it, actually. Many people do not use their own names, and so can hide behind a certain anonymity. (Just look at some of the monikers used on this Forum, not to mention the various avatars. If that doesn't represent a certain element of "make believe" or hiding behind a false front, then what is?) Plus, there are usually very few ramifications or accountability for internet behavior.

I had met 1 or 2 persons worthy of generous praise, but I found much to my disgust, that the majority deserved to spend their lives isolated in a room alone with nothing but their PC as I see it. I frankly would not enjoy meeting them in person. Generally, people are truely what they seem.

Did you actually meet them, or just form a favorable impression based on what you read by them? For all you know, they could have been little old grannies, amusing themselves at your expense.

As far as your assertion about "the majority", you do realize that means more than 50%, right? I doubt that there has ever been a time in the history of the ASLML when more than 50% of subscribers actually contributed anything (perhaps I am mistaken), let alone something that you would find attributable to "scum".

You might be part of this forum and Warfare HQ while using the ASLML, but you will really have to contend with the fact, that to me, the ASLML simply doesn't exist. I wouldn't miss it if it disappeared.

I find it quite egocentric and delusional of you to think that I am in any way contending with your beliefs about the ASLML. And amusing, frankly.

Sorry for the rant, but I want people to realise, it isn't always an argument over copywrite and/or who is doing what with ASL. Sometimes it is purely the result of members being fine examples of all that makes the world lousy sometimes.

I suppose the irony of your rant would be lost on you. What I read here is hardly any different than any of the other rants I have heard on the ASLML. Honestly, this may be the most bitter post I've encountered on the ASL Forums. Certainly, a generalized characterization of the ASLML as "scum" would scarcely place you any higher on the food chain than those whose behavior you purport to condemn.

You're entitled to your opinion, I will never begrudge you that.

One last thought: Why did you think it was appropriate to post a comment about Remembrance Day on the Advanced Squad Leader Mailing List?

That's a rhetorical question, son. Please don't bother to respond, because I really don't care.

With Regards,
Bruce Bakken, ASLML member since 2003

 

[Aries]

Actually, "Sarge", from my study of internet communications, I would suggest that you are probably wrong; the reverse is very likely the case. I believe that studies have shown that people really do take on other personalities when communicating over the internet.

Studies show many things.

I have met as many phony people in real life, you know actually in person, as I have on the internet.

The people on here, the personalities they project, might in fact be the real person. The person they show to people in real life might actually be the false one.

Sometimes, when given the cover of hiding behind a monitor, they actually become who they really are. Which would indeed be truely sad.

Oh well, the bottom line is, I know a considerable number of people from a considerable number of sources on the internet that have more than adequately proven the measure of their worth.

I get a bit bent out of shape on occasion, when confronted by that puny minority (and I forget it is a puny minority) that occasionally have nothing decent civil or worthy to say.

That's my weakness. But it goes away soon enough.

I have a long list of people that have asked me for my Steel Panthers cd. A rather long list actually. I am known on quite a considerable number of locations on the internet (this is where those that insist on saying I am full of myself can now cut and paste that comment and attempt to paint me in some egotistical light, but I don't care a hoot). You guys already have all the answers right?

I have had people more than adequately prove that some nights I just have to ignore that anti social puny minority. Because the considerable majority doesn't support your opinions. I just forget that truth occasionally.

I need to stop listening to some of you guys so much.

 

[Treadhead]

I have met as many phony people in real life, you know actually in person, as I have on the internet.

The people on here, the personalities they project, might in fact be the real person. The person they show to people in real life might actually be the false one.

That's a very good point.

I get a bit bent out of shape on occasion, when confronted by that puny minority (and I forget it is a puny minority) that occasionally have nothing decent civil or worthy to say.

Yes, so do I. On the ASLML especially, I can become very passionate and let statements get under my skin; sometimes I respond too rashly or more harshly than I intended.

And I'm glad that you acknowledge that it is indeed a puny minority that may sometimes lash out in a nasty way, for whatever reason.

I need to stop listening to some of you guys so much.

But really, that's the whole point.

From what I gather, your comment during ASLML days of lore was probably considered provocative. Heck, even on this subject your statements could be taken as provocative. In a public forum with active participants, you can expect that someone is going to take exception, and they are going to respond.

I cannot speak toward the nature of the responses you received in latter days. Suffice it to say I am impressed enough by your characterization to understand that you were offended. If someone really called you a "commie nazi", I daresay that person is worthy of your ridicule, and not to be taken seriously -- let alone be a source of insult.

As regards this current Forum, I suppose that you will henceforth ignore some of the names here that have answered your objections; that would be a mistake in my opinion, because each of these respondents has made or will make some positive contributions on other subjects. But certainly I do not expect you will stop participating in the Forum altogether. That would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Thus my main objection to your rant.

You condemn the entire ASLML -- and all that it contains, good and bad -- because of something that was committed quite a while ago, by those whom you would probably admit were in the small minority of ASLML subscribers. In the process you dismiss some of the best ASL minds you've never met, people who do not appear in this Forum and who may not have been around when you were so grievously insulted.

To me, that is sad.

You are entitled to your views, and to your right to express them. But to have that right in a public forum, you must be willing to accept some rebuttal -- not insults, mind you, but honest difference of opinion -- even if it can be rather harsh at times.

I perhaps could have expressed this view more reasonably in my first reply, but I found your statements about the ASLML to be ... well, provocative.

Take care,
Bruce Bakken

 

[Aries]

bebakken thanks for that last post, it is more in keeping with what I prefer.

Please guys, understand, some of my ideas ARE genuinely stupid.

I don't mind when one of my less than brilliant concepts is revealed to be less than brilliant. I don't resent critism if it's just honest critism.

I guess the biggest error was ever mentioning what I should have left buried. That might well have been a big error in reasoning.

The REAL original problem, was not that my idea was not liked. It was being labelled as harshly as I was for it. It was the personal attack that hurt.

 

[Tater]

No one has ever said Les the Sarge is a warm fuzzy individual. I speak my mind when the time warrants it.

Hmmm...

IOW, Les the Sarge can speak his mind...but anyone who "speaks their mind" in challenge of his notions become "pure scum". So I guess that puts me in the "pure scum" category since I consider everything you have said in this thread to be the epitome of hypocrisy. If your attitude on the ASLML was as sanctimonious and self-righteous as you are acting on the forums I am not surprised that you received such harsh treatment at the hands of the Listers.

The ASLML will let some things slide...but putting on pious airs as you do is the quickest way have your little red balloon popped!

 

[Aries]

Tater

Think of a suitably offensive put down and then kindly say it to yourself while looking in a mirror.

The difference between you and bebakken is clearly apparent.

He is a lot better class of person, you are not.

Please utter that phrase several times to yourself actually.