ASL Waffen-SS: Runes or Skullz?

SS Runes or Skullz?

  • I love the SS Runes

    Votes: 20 32.8%
  • I love the Skullz

    Votes: 8 13.1%
  • The SS are Dirtbags

    Votes: 33 54.1%

  • Total voters
    61

Gunner Scott

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Hi all-

So which do you guys prefer Waffen-SS counters with the Lightening bolt runes or with skullz? I am partial for the SS runes just because the skullz are more representaive of the Totenkopf Panzer Division where as the SS Runes can cover all SS divisions.

Scott
 

Michael Dorosh

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Hi all-

So which do you guys prefer Waffen-SS counters with the Lightening bolt runes or with skullz? I am partial for the SS runes just because the skullz are more representaive of the Totenkopf Panzer Division where as the SS Runes can cover all SS divisions.

Scott
You're a bit confused as far as the runes go. The SS-runes were emblematic only of those divisions designated as "reichsdeutsche", i.e. staffed by ethnic Germans. Those staffed by foreign volunteers were forbidden from wearing the SS-runes. I believe they actually outnumbered the reichsdeutsche formations by a small margin. Ethnic Germans, either reichsdeutsche (German nationals) or volksdeutsche (ethnic Germans living outside the borders of the Reich) were permitted to wear an SS rune badge on their uniform, on the breast pocket, if in fact their division was not permitted to wear the rune itself. These were Germans who had served in the Waffen-SS proper, or other branches of the SS, and were seconded to these formations as cadre.

In short - over half the divisions of the SS were actually forbidden from wearing the runes due to the bizarre ethnic and racial beliefs of the Nazis. So no, they are not "emblematic" of the Waffen-SS as a whole.
 
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Bryan Holtby

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Did Wiking not use the SS runes?

What about Das Reich? I believe it's forces were raised primarily from Austria. Or did Hitler consider Austrians to be ethnic Germans?
 

Michael Dorosh

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What about Das Reich? I believe it's forces were raised primarily from Austria. Or did Hitler consider Austrians to be ethnic Germans?
What is this "Austria" you speak of? :) Look up the definition of Anschluss and tell me what you find...I believe it comes right before "großdeutschland".

Did Wiking not use the SS runes?
You're beginning to see how ridiculous the whole thing was.

1. LAH - runes
2. Das Reich - runes
3. Totenkopf - totenkopf
4. Polizei - police insignia, possibly some SS insignia
5. Wiking - viking ship authorized, runes actually issued
6. Nord - runes
7. Prinz Eugen - odalrune
8. Florian Geyer - runes
9. Hohenstaufen - runes
10. Frundsberg - runes
11. Nordland - sunwheel
12. Hitlerjugend - runes
13. Handschar - scimitar
14. Ukrainian - lion
15. Latvian - some runes, later a sunburst
16. Reichsführer SS - runes
17. Götz v. Berlichtengen - runes
18. Horst Wessel - SA authorized, probably runes issued
19. Latvian - swastika
20. Estonian - runes, later E and sword, still later armoured arm and sword
21. Albanian - Skanderbeg helmet
22. Maria Theresa - cornflower
23. Croatian - sunburst authorized, never issued
24. Nederland - Wolfsangel
25. Hungarian - Capital H unconfirmed
26. Hungarian - paper only
27. Langemarck - runes as brigade, three footed swastika (Trifos)
28. Walloons - Burgundy Cross and runes both likely
29. Russian - Maltese cross with swords illustrated but not issued
29. (duplicate) Italian - fasces possibly worn
30. Russian - Orthodox Russian Cross possible, or Trident of Vladimir
31. ad hoc - SS runes, possibly officers only
32. 30 January - runes
33. Hungarian - paper only
33. (duplicate) Charlemagne - sunwheel or palm leaves
34. Landstorm Nederland - rune, flaming grenade, and Wolfsangel all illustrated in various sources
35. Polizei - mix of Police and SS
36. WaffenGrenadier Div - crossed rifles and grenade
37. Lutzow - runes?
38. Nibelungen - ad hoc unit

Whether or not the different prototypes mentioned were widely issued or not probably isn't the point. The Nazis didn't want "aliens" wearing their "ethnically pure" SS runes on their uniforms. The point here is that the runes were reserved for "German" formations - note that the 16th Division was considered one such, despite its relatively high number, and no special insignia was created for it, unlike, say, the 7th Division, formed earlier, and given the Odalrune to set it apart from ethnic Germans who were to wear the runes. The 16th was recruited from Himmler's personal guard units in Germany in 1943, while the 7th came from ethnic Germans in Yugoslavia and Austria the year before.
 
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AZslim

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A private poll!!!!!!!! I want to know who is voting for SKULLLS dammit!
 

Morbii

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I voted for skullz. The SS skull was awesome... too bad it's tainted.
 

Vinnie

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If you could get print on demand counters I think it would be really cool to have all sorts of infantry and AFVs with divisional symbols on them.
I'd love to see Desert Rats or Big Red One symbols. The screaming eagles would look good (much better than the All Americans).
I'd like to see what the Soviets could bring to the party too. We're all too caught up with SS.
 

Martin Mayers

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If you could get print on demand counters I think it would be really cool to have all sorts of infantry and AFVs with divisional symbols on them.
I'd love to see Desert Rats or Big Red One symbols. The screaming eagles would look good (much better than the All Americans).
I'd like to see what the Soviets could bring to the party too. We're all too caught up with SS.
The CH Spanish module has rather pleasant Spanish national markings on counters
 

Gunner Scott

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Um so what. nobody cares dude. Go play some ASL..................

Scott

What is this "Austria" you speak of? :) Look up the definition of Anschluss and tell me what you find...I believe it comes right before "großdeutschland".



You're beginning to see how ridiculous the whole thing was.

1. LAH - runes
2. Das Reich - runes
3. Totenkopf - totenkopf
4. Polizei - police insignia, possibly some SS insignia
5. Wiking - viking ship authorized, runes actually issued
6. Nord - runes
7. Prinz Eugen - odalrune
8. Florian Geyer - runes
9. Hohenstaufen - runes
10. Frundsberg - runes
11. Nordland - sunwheel
12. Hitlerjugend - runes
13. Handschar - scimitar
14. Ukrainian - lion
15. Latvian - some runes, later a sunburst
16. Reichsführer SS - runes
17. Götz v. Berlichtengen - runes
18. Horst Wessel - SA authorized, probably runes issued
19. Latvian - swastika
20. Estonian - runes, later E and sword, still later armoured arm and sword
21. Albanian - Skanderbeg helmet
22. Maria Theresa - cornflower
23. Croatian - sunburst authorized, never issued
24. Nederland - Wolfsangel
25. Hungarian - Capital H unconfirmed
26. Hungarian - paper only
27. Langemarck - runes as brigade, three footed swastika (Trifos)
28. Walloons - Burgundy Cross and runes both likely
29. Russian - Maltese cross with swords illustrated but not issued
29. (duplicate) Italian - fasces possibly worn
30. Russian - Orthodox Russian Cross possible, or Trident of Vladimir
31. ad hoc - SS runes, possibly officers only
32. 30 January - runes
33. Hungarian - paper only
33. (duplicate) Charlemagne - sunwheel or palm leaves
34. Landstorm Nederland - rune, flaming grenade, and Wolfsangel all illustrated in various sources
35. Polizei - mix of Police and SS
36. WaffenGrenadier Div - crossed rifles and grenade
37. Lutzow - runes?
38. Nibelungen - ad hoc unit

Whether or not the different prototypes mentioned were widely issued or not probably isn't the point. The Nazis didn't want "aliens" wearing their "ethnically pure" SS runes on their uniforms. The point here is that the runes were reserved for "German" formations - note that the 16th Division was considered one such, despite its relatively high number, and no special insignia was created for it, unlike, say, the 7th Division, formed earlier, and given the Odalrune to set it apart from ethnic Germans who were to wear the runes. The 16th was recruited from Himmler's personal guard units in Germany in 1943, while the 7th came from ethnic Germans in Yugoslavia and Austria the year before.
 

ASRomafan

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You're a bit confused as far as the runes go. The SS-runes were emblematic only of those divisions designated as "reichsdeutsche", i.e. staffed by ethnic Germans. Those staffed by foreign volunteers were forbidden from wearing the SS-runes. I believe they actually outnumbered the reichsdeutsche formations by a small margin. Ethnic Germans, either reichsdeutsche (German nationals) or volksdeutsche (ethnic Germans living outside the borders of the Reich) were permitted to wear an SS rune badge on their uniform, on the breast pocket, if in fact their division was not permitted to wear the rune itself. These were Germans who had served in the Waffen-SS proper, or other branches of the SS, and were seconded to these formations as cadre.

In short - over half the divisions of the SS were actually forbidden from wearing the runes due to the bizarre ethnic and racial beliefs of the Nazis. So no, they are not "emblematic" of the Waffen-SS as a whole.
chuckles. I bet you are a hit at any party you attend.
 

Michael Dorosh

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chuckles. I bet you are a hit at any party you attend.
On the face of it, given a choice at a party, I would probably tend to try and talk to as many female attendees as I could, if they were sufficiently interesting - and they tend not to be very interested in military history. I save those conversations for the internet.

Come to think of it, though, most males have little interest in military history these days either, so it's not something that comes up and nothing I really enjoy talking to uninitiates about. I spent the last party I went to - a friend's birthday party at a pub downtown IIRC - talking to some of his coworkers, mostly about the upcoming civic election, my trip to Europe, their travel experiences, home improvement projects, the football game that was on the television, and various small talk topics which are now lost to memory, probably embarrassing stories about the birthday boy which would have been the common link we all shared. I'm almost positive the Waffen SS never came up.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Um so what. nobody cares dude.
Scott, you post here every second week about the Waffen-SS. Yet you continually manage to mangle some aspect of their history, be it a simple vehicle identification, or some aspect of their insignia. It's quite obvious that you care. One would hate to see simple frequency of posting mistaken for expertise on the subject.
 
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