ASL Supplemental Map Bundle Question

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Action Pack 7 (60, 61, 62) is unobtainable until one shows up on ebay. It has maps 60-62. As a newer player some of these maps are actually harder to obtain than the first map pack. At least maps 1-52 [EXC: 42,43] will be reprinted in the core modules and those will be obtainable at some point. I don't believe MMP has any plans to reprint the action packs.

If 10z/17z were removed from the pack would that allow these maps to be shipped unfolded?

Could these maps be added to an overlay pack?

Maybe add 1 (or more) new map to bring in all the suckers veterans?
 

Scott_Blanton

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If 10z/17z were removed from the pack would that allow these maps to be shipped unfolded?
10z/17z are not the maps that are different sizes. 1a/b-9a/b (9 back printed map boards) are the ones that are not regular sized.
 
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10z/17z are not the maps that are different sizes. 1a/b-9a/b (9 back printed map boards) are the ones that are not regular sized.
Thank you for the correction Scott. As you may have guessed, I don't own any of those maps. I am one of the unfortunate 273 (and falling?) who have pre-ordered so I would like to see these maps printed.

Without heading too deep into "Sparkyland". What about adding the HASL maps?

The Red Barricades map had to be recreated. Journal 2 was re-printed though, so I assume it's at most some or all of the maps between Red Barricades and Journal 2 (2000) that were hand drawn.

Double the preorder #, increase the cost and use this as an opportunity to digitize the older maps:
KGP1 - 2 Maps
KGP2 - 3 Maps
Pegasus Bridge - 1 Map
Blood Reef: Tarawa - 2 Maps
A Bridge Too Far - 1 Map
Operation Watchtower - 1 Map

I'd buy a second set just to mount some of these on my wall.
 

Philippe D.

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The HASL maps only make sense with the whole product: the maps, the scenarios, the CG rules... so it would only make sense to reprint the whole HASL modules - which I'm not sure would be a very reasonable idea: many of the older players already have a copy and would not necessarily buy a new one. (OK, so they're redoing Red Barricades, but that makes sense since it connects to the new one, so fully enjoying the new product requires owning the older one)
 
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I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. That is a tragic under utilization of some of the most beautiful maps made for ASL. Why can't KGP maps be used to represent other parts of the Ardennes or the Hurtgen? Or Eastern Forests? Would they be any less accurate in those roles than generic map #52? Why can't the Red Barricades map be used with Beyond Valor counters to add Stalingrad scenarios? I think that battle was big enough to have some scenarios designed there that don't use any of the HASL special rules.

As pointed out by RIC of the LBC, some of the Action Pack maps are just as difficult to obtain (or more!) than the HASL maps. Does MMP restrict themselves to developing scenarios for the "core" maps 1-52 that are available? Why should they? If you're not going to restrict new scenario design to "core" maps that are available with the "core" modules then why not use all of the maps you have developed.

I'll stop here, but I just agree with RIC that I feel that the maps in the bundle should be considered a "core" product just like that core modules.
 

Bob Walters

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I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. That is a tragic under utilization of some of the most beautiful maps made for ASL. Why can't KGP maps be used to represent other parts of the Ardennes or the Hurtgen? Or Eastern Forests? Would they be any less accurate in those roles than generic map #52? Why can't the Red Barricades map be used with Beyond Valor counters to add Stalingrad scenarios? I think that battle was big enough to have some scenarios designed there that don't use any of the HASL special rules.

As pointed out by RIC of the LBC, some of the Action Pack maps are just as difficult to obtain (or more!) than the HASL maps. Does MMP restrict themselves to developing scenarios for the "core" maps 1-52 that are available? Why should they? If you're not going to restrict new scenario design to "core" maps that are available with the "core" modules then why not use all of the maps you have developed.

I'll stop here, but I just agree with RIC that I feel that the maps in the bundle should be considered a "core" product just like that core modules.
Indeed, they could also be used for DYO scenarios in the same areas. Heck, there were some areas that were fought over more than once. Besides selling them sounds like a good way for MMP to make some easy cash.
 

klasmalmstrom

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I'll stop here, but I just agree with RIC that I feel that the maps in the bundle should be considered a "core" product just like that core modules.
What would be the practical difference between if the maps are considered "core" or not?
 

Eagle4ty

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I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree. That is a tragic under utilization of some of the most beautiful maps made for ASL. Why can't KGP maps be used to represent other parts of the Ardennes or the Hurtgen? Or Eastern Forests? Would they be any less accurate in those roles than generic map #52? Why can't the Red Barricades map be used with Beyond Valor counters to add Stalingrad scenarios? I think that battle was big enough to have some scenarios designed there that don't use any of the HASL special rules.

As pointed out by RIC of the LBC, some of the Action Pack maps are just as difficult to obtain (or more!) than the HASL maps. Does MMP restrict themselves to developing scenarios for the "core" maps 1-52 that are available? Why should they? If you're not going to restrict new scenario design to "core" maps that are available with the "core" modules then why not use all of the maps you have developed.

I'll stop here, but I just agree with RIC that I feel that the maps in the bundle should be considered a "core" product just like that core modules.
The difficulty I see would be the time commitment allocated to this venture. MMP is not a large corp with unlimited resources or personnel assets, so taking time to address these issues could seriously impact the continued timely production of upcoming products. A factor that surely they must entertain is what is the return for their investment of time, energy and money as even with outsourcing help there is a degree of in-house processing and quality control that must be managed. Surely not to say these products will never be re-released, but the potential I would deem to be small. As customers in general and hobbiests in particular, of course we would prefer to have these items readily available or at least have a possibility of seeing them become so in the near future; Unfortunately I simply don't see this as a viable scenario at least in the near future.
 

von Marwitz

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Why can't KGP maps be used to represent other parts of the Ardennes or the Hurtgen? Or Eastern Forests? Would they be any less accurate in those roles than generic map #52? Why can't the Red Barricades map be used with Beyond Valor counters to add Stalingrad scenarios?
While basically, you have a point, I believe the problem lies with the practical part.

Usually the HASL maps are very large. If you play face-to-face and only want to use a small part of a HASL map, these are very inconvenient to use. Especially at tournaments, where table space might be somewhat limited. I believe that is the reason why HASL maps are quite rarely used for non-HASL use.

VASL, of course, solves that problem. The same, BTW for the use of multiple overlays. But yet, scenarios are not especially designed for primary VASL use.

von Marwitz
 
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Good points all. Got a little heated with the "core" thing. MMP does seem to believe having all the maps available is important.

MMP will do what MMP does, it's their world.

I bet MMP already considered making some smaller SK-Size maps or 1a\b size maps from the digital HASL maps. The quadrants in FB for ex. are not that much bigger than the 1a\b size, might be a straight forward crop. Small iconic sections of the larger maps would be pretty neat I think and pretty straight forward reuse.
 

Philippe D.

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Each time one more geoboard is added to the system, it can be butted with any of the myriads of existing geoboards to create more diverse terrain. Not so with the HASL maps - while they often have more interesting terrain, since they are not constrained to the geoboard model, they may not be used with others.

So, the decision is to mostly stick to geoboards for scenario design, and this in turn makes geoboards the only "core" maps. Variety comes from the choice of which boards to use together, not from reusing the beautiful HASL maps. In return, only players who want to be able to play the specific HASL scenarios or CGs need to get these maps. Each time a scenario designer crosses that line and uses a HASL map for his scenario (I know there's at least one Journal scenario that reuses the Kakazu Ridge map in a different context), he somehow weakens the distinction - so it's better if they don't do it too much.

The unwritten deal is more or less this: if you have all MMP geoboards, you should be able to play any MMP scenario - but you potentially need all of them, or some scenarios will remain out of reach. With most TPPs, it's often that you "only" need their own maps in addition to the MMP maps (this might be optimistic - aren't there LFT scenarios that use BFP maps? or other crossovers?). This is already a very large collection, IMHO; adding the HASL maps would increase the "necessary" material even more, for little added variety since they can only be used "by themselves".
 

Robin Reeve

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As MMP already sell SK geoboards separately which weren't included in the first map bundle, I think that even if the second one doesn't reach its pre-order number, the maps could be published separately.
 
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