ASL Starter Kit and New players

[Guest]

Last Saturday (3/27/04) the Tampa ASL Group played ASL at Hobbytown in Brandon. We had 3 or 4 customers come up and look at our one copy of the the ASL starter kit. Their response was favorable. One old Squad Leader player expressed interest when he saw the kit.

When I first learned of the ASL starter kit, I was skeptical about the whole idea. Then after I read more about it and saw the new boards, I changed my mind. The project is not a waste of effort for MMP. And now after our session at Hobbytown, I am a strong supporter of the ASL Starter Kit. It is a good idea. I believe it will eventually breathe life back into the hobby.

The most immediate problem that could arise is that of grognard like myself buying them all up. Hobbytown told me they are getting 6 copies. Our group will devour then quickly, leaving none on the shelf for new players. I told Hobbytown they need a stack of them. It would also be nice if MMP would send their retailers an ASL Starter Kit poster to display in the gaming area to promote the hobby. I think this simple promotional tool would help get a few new players.

What do you think the effect of the starter kit will be on the ASL hobby?

 

[Harold]

?

Trying not to be vague, it depends. I have seen on the other lists/message boards everything from "This is what I am looking for to get a feel to see if I want to jump to ASL." to "When is the next SK coming out?" As long as the SK's remain SK's and not move to an entire separate system I am all for it. Keep things like new terrain introduced to a minimum and much of the chrome like HOB out and it will better serve it's true purpose of steering new ASL'ish gamers towards ASL. Once MMP gets the Rulebook and BV back in circulation than everyone can get a better idea.

 

[pryoung]

Some have stated that the ASLSK series could become a game system unto its own (comparable to the original Squad Leader before the gamettes). However, the next two are supposed to introduce Ordnance followed by Vehicles. I suspect that by the time someone has gone thru all three ASLSKs, the leap to full ASL (Chapters A-E) will not be as great as some think. Sure there will be detail still to add, even lots of detail, but I expect ASLSK to prove to be more of a Programmed Instruction for ASL than an ASL-Lite system likely to survive on its own. Time of course will tell.

Many (including me) have said before that ASL is actually relatively simple in its basic mechanics, with the majority of the rulebook handling very esoteric and specific situations. The remaining differences between ASLSK and full ASL once the third starter kit has been released will truly answer whether that assessment is correct or not.

Pete

 

[skuwa]

Hi,

I am a new player of ASL as I posted before and looking forward to Starter Kit. In my case, I'm really interested in infantry combats and my next step-up of ASL system will be the addition of japanese infantry rather than some ordnance or vehicles because their step-loss mechanism seems very cool to me and this is one of my biggest reasons to decide to enter the big deep hole of ASL system. I hope there exist lots of japanese infantry scenarios without vehicles.
Anyway I don't have FtF opponent right now, so I hope this Starter Kit brings a lot of new players into ASL world.

 

[Pitman]

Skuwa, PTO is *great*. It is my favorite type of ASL scenario. Plenty without vehicles, so don't worry.

(wrote the designer of a PTO scenario pack and the author of an article on PTO fighting in the most recent Journal)

 

[skuwa]

Thanks, pitman.
I also started collecting ASL annuals on E-bay, so hopefully there are plenty PTO scenarios there.

 

[sgtono]

Re: ?

Trying not to be vague, it depends. I have seen on the other lists/message boards everything from "This is what I am looking for to get a feel to see if I want to jump to ASL." to "When is the next SK coming out?" As long as the SK's remain SK's and not move to an entire separate system I am all for it. Keep things like new terrain introduced to a minimum and much of the chrome like HOB out and it will better serve it's true purpose of steering new ASL'ish gamers towards ASL. Once MMP gets the Rulebook and BV back in circulation than everyone can get a better idea.

About sums it for me. Thanks Harold.

 

[kdalton]

ASL Starter Kits for stores

I can tell you that a several of our retailers have upped their preorders in a big way. Lots of great buzz about the kit and lots of people looking for it. GAMA Trade Show helped us a lot as well. I just got a rather large stack of business cards Brian and Ken Dunn collected at GAMA, and will be following up asap.

We're submitting it to a couple of places for game reviews as well.

 

[Aries]

I mirror Evan's concerns.

I remember the release of Paratrooper. It was supposed to be an ASL sampler then too.

All the diehards bought the thing just to add yet more ASL to their stash. End result, few newbies ever even got near to them.

My message to us grognards, leave the ASL Starter kits alone for a while.

Let the newbies buy them. Stop pretending you are "just buying them as teaching tools".
Let the newbies buy them and try learning on their own.

And if they DON'T sell at all (to newbies), we and MMP will have learned a valuable marketing lesson.

Because if all MMP achieves is a good burst of sales to us grogs, and then sales flat line, the real truth will be that there really ISN'T a future growing market for ASL. Just the same old mob.

On the other hand, if we actually let the newbies buy them, and newbies actually do buy them, we might see a LOT more newbies in the first place.

I would much rather spend some effort getting someone else to buy the Starter, and then offer the person a few beers and an afternoon to check it out with me.
Rather than me buy it, and hope the guy wants a few beers, and the chance to look at my new toy.
The person will have more interest in learning a game, if it's THEIR game eh.

Want to go the distance guys, tell your prospective newbie, you think that game is so good, YOU will offer him a rebate on his purchase after he buys it.

Nothing says "I back my game", like offering a 20 dollar bill after the guy has made his decision to buy. Tell him if he doesn't like it in a year, you will agree to pay the remainder of the original cost, and take it off his hands.

Our game needs us to put our money where our mouth is gentlemen.

Do YOU truely believe ASL is the best wargame out there?

 

[Chas Argent]

I mirror Evan's concerns.

I remember the release of Paratrooper. It was supposed to be an ASL sampler then too. All the diehards bought the thing just to add yet more ASL to their stash. End result, few newbies ever even got near to them.

I'm not sure about this, Les; buying Paratrooper & the rule book was how I got into ASL. And I know others who did the same thing. Now, granted, I had already played Squad Leader so maybe the transition was easier. But I remember it being hard

It sounds like MMP will print more if they run out, so I doub't there's any worries abouth the Starter Kit running out for good right now.

 

[SamB]

Go ahead and buy a copy or two. Just make sure you sell them at cost or give them away to new players.

Recruit!!! (that's a verb)

Sam

 

[Larry]

If all of the Starter Kits get purchased, MMP will have a demand that will warrant another print run. Everything is in place for such a run. Part of supporting the hobby is supporting the financial interests of the primary source for hobby materials. Given the cost of the starter kit to retail vendors, MMP would be able to justify another print run if demand warrants such a run.

I bought two copies of the SK for my own use and for my son. Buying to sell once OOP hits at higher prices on ebay will not help as much. But MMP thrives on sales regardless of the identity of the buyer. I don't think that leaving units unsold on shelves will encourage retailers to demand another print run or encourage MMP to make one.

 

[Aries]

You guys are missing the obvious

I am not saying don't buy them, I am saying don't piss off the newbies buy not letting them buy them.

If a store has 3 items on the shelf, and 3 grogs buy all 3 on the first day, you have basically put 3 sold units worth of cash into MMPs pocket, all fine and good, but you have removed from sight the ASL starter kit from the eyes of any newbies that also might have bought it say a few days later.

And get something clear here, this forum is basically only known to ASL players for the most part.

We need the game to get exposure. So I am not saying "don't buy the thing", I am saying don't go out and eat up all the first print in the first few days before any newbies even get to see it in the first place

The idea of a large poster in some good stores is a good idea too.

If the grogs buy up the first run it will be all well and good, but talk about future print runs only goes so far with me eh. Been around to long to assume it will happen. Better chance of it being "delayed" while the next thing is at the printers.

"MMP will have a demand that will warrant another print run."

That comment has not actually been born out by past experiences.

There is a great deal of demand for a great deal of things ASL. And they have not been put into print all the same.

If the comment was automatically valid, the Rulebook would never have even gone out of print in the first place eh. Nor BV or any of the other modules.

People are not buying on eBay to get a great deal in all cases. Sometimes you get a deal, odds are you get to be yet another example of "I bought such and such, and paid this crazy sum, but I am glad to finally have gotten it".

 

[Brian W]

I don't think that leaving units unsold on shelves will encourage retailers to demand another print run or encourage MMP to make one.

Has anyone seen them on the shelf? We haven't yet here, and may have lost a sale on Saturday...

 

[HKishel]

I saw about 12 copies at one of the game stores in the Twin Cities. Wanted to buy one very badly, as I am still waiting for my pre-order.

I am hoping to convince one of the stores to set up an open time to demo the game and try to get some new people to try it.

 

[SamB]

I have made arraingements with a game store to have 16 copies available for sale at Enfilade - our annual tourney in Seattle. Enfilade draws 250 attendees - about 40 of which are there to play ASL. The rest play miniatures.

At any rate, we always get gamers drifting in to the ASL room and asking. This year I'll show them the starter kit and refer them to the game store's booth at the touirney.

As always, I'll invite them to sit down and play.

 

[Anonymous]

Hans, when did you preorder? I know we still have a small amount left to send to individual preorderers, but if you don't have it by Monday, call the office or message me.

 

[Matt Boehland]

Re: Hans, Minnesota, and ASLSK

Hans, that wouldn't be 'The Source" you saw with ASLSK would it? I just did my run of the local (Minneapolis-area) game stores and they're the only ones I saw with it. If not, then there's a cool store I don't know about :wink:

Hell, I got my two preordered ASLSKs (one for me, one to leave with a friend if he's willing to give it a try :wink: ).. and something about seeing it on the shelf made me feel like I should be buying another one...

Anyhow, this really seems exactly what's needed for teaching people who use the excuse that they don't have time to learn such a complicated game. The programmed instruction was still too long and not near as 'newbie friendly'. I'm still fairly new myself, but had managed to work my way up to the basics of ordnance and vehicles with the help of someone willing to teach me, but had no luck in trying to teach any friends the game.. I really think I could with this set though, and still have fun with the scenarios, and its nice to have a variety of quick learning scenarios to choose from (although I'm sure some think its just wrong to start with anything but Guards Counterattack).

But best of all, because its really just a 'stripped down' version of the game, and doesn't teach any wrong rules, all that's needed to go to full ASL is to keep teaching the rules that were omitted from the starter kit, and the "whats not in the starter kit" list is a nice reference for that.. Start with the scenarios in the box, then add snipers, concealment, wind/weather, heat of battle, and so on in the order you want (and none other than possibly concealment really seem to alter the balance of the starter kit scenarios to one side..).

In short, I didn't personally need the set to learn the game for myself, but maybe I can find more people to play the game with because of the starter kit

Well, enough rambling..

 

[Anonymous]

Hans, when did you preorder? I know we still have a small amount left to send to individual preorderers, but if you don't have it by Monday, call the office or message me.

I did not preorder till the 10th of March. I may have been the last preorder before it was taken down. If that is true maybe there is a prize for being last? Maybe not. I am looking forward to getting my hands on it from all I have read so far it sounds great.

Thank you for the info, Keith. I just wanted to say that I am very happy that you and all at MMP are putting in so much hard work to keep ASL and the Gamers stuff alive.

Hans

 

[HKishel]

Re: Hans, Minnesota, and ASLSK

Hans, that wouldn't be 'The Source" you saw with ASLSK would it? I just did my run of the local (Minneapolis-area) game stores and they're the only ones I saw with it. If not, then there's a cool store I don't know about :wink:

Well Matt, yes it would be The Source. Maybe sometime we can set up a game down there and see if we can get others interested. I will provide this insentive as well, I roll very poorly (lots of box cars) and it has been a long time since I played, so it could be an easy win for you