ASL Sleaze and the Hex Side.

Tim Niesen

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We are having our Saturday game. Steve is disputing the concept of ASL Sleaze. Where in the D section is the rule where a tank in bypass is in the hex to justify not firing outside of the affected hex? Sorry for the elementary question? Also where is the rule where the enemy unit in the hex has to fire at the CE tank crew employed in the ASL Sleaze? That is when an enemy unit enters an occupied hex. This usually occurs when a Berserker or a Banzi unit unit enters the hex during movement. Human wave also. Sorry for the elementary nature of the question. Tim
 

Tim Niesen

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Just to make it clear. Steve is arguing speciously that the tank on the hex side is not in the hex itself. Tim
 

jrv

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A7.212. An AFV only has to be CE to cause Target Selection Limits if it is CT, it is not in the same Location as the enemy unit and the enemy unit is above it.

JR
 

Jazz

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Actually, there is no "Hexside" location. A vehicle in VBM is in one hex or the other, unambiguously.

D2.3 VEHICULAR BYPASS MOVEMENT (VBM): VBM enables vehicles (and animal-drawn transport) to move through a building/woods hex at a reduced MP (MF) cost without risking Bog penalties for movement through those obstacles. ......
 

jrv

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Just to make it clear. Steve is arguing speciously that the tank on the hex side is not in the hex itself. Tim
All units are always in some Location, and bypass is not a separate Location from the ground level [A2.8]. The last sentence of A4.3, "A unit that decides to occupy an obstacle it is currently Bypassing must pay the entire in-hex MF cost to enter that obstacle even though it is already in the hex", demonstrates that a unit in bypass of an obstacle is in the same hex/location as the obstacle.

JR
 

Eagle4ty

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As for limiting fire outside the Location, it is not covered in Chapter D because it is part and parcel of the more basic rules of Target Selection Limits (A7.212) which preclude units from firing outside its Location while its Location is occupied by a KEU. {Note also jrv's response above and the definition of "Location" in the Index}
 

Tim Niesen

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That Steve was looking in an incorrect section in the ASL Rulebook was not my fault. I do understand the rules cited for justification of ASL Sleaze. Tim
 

Magpie

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Just to make it clear. Steve is arguing speciously that the tank on the hex side is not in the hex itself. Tim
As an aside, the "eureka" moment i had many,many, MANY, years ago as i pored over my then shiney new ASLRB was that bypassing units are in the green bits outside the building not actually on the hexside.
 

Tim Niesen

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What that I was trying to find and failed in the A section of the rules was if a unit entered your hex that it was necessary to fire at that unit. I understand that units with spraying fire capacity use that tactic to inhibit infantry unit exploiting the ASL Sleaze tactic. At that point I gave up, starting posting this thread, and Steve started looking into the D section of the rules to prove his scepticism about a tank in bypass. Thanks for your collective help. Tim
 

jrv

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What that I was trying to find and failed in the A section of the rules was if a unit entered your hex that it was necessary to fire at that unit. I understand that units with spraying fire capacity use that tactic to inhibit infantry unit exploiting the ASL Sleaze tactic. At that point I gave up, starting posting this thread, and Steve started looking into the D section of the rules to prove his scepticism about a tank in bypass. Thanks for your collective help. Tim
It is only necessary to fire if the enemy unit entering is infantry/cavalry and that unit is not in bypass [A8.312, A12.151]. It is not required to fire at a vehicle that enters nor at a unit in bypass.

Spraying fire would not be directly useful for VBM freeze sleaze as once the enemy vehicle enters the friendly location the friendly unit may not attack outside of its own location. Spraying fire could be used prior to an anticipated VBM freeze sleaze to cover multiple adjacent hexes with residual FP.

JR
 

Tim Niesen

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That is useful information. I had misinterpreted a Forum column on this topic before. Steve wins the argument in this regard. Tim
 

jrv

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The value of VBM sleaze freeze is not that it forces an attack per A8.312, but rather that it denies fire out of the location per A7.212.

JR
 

Robin Reeve

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Tim, I already suggested that you had a rulebook handy - at least a pocket one.
Many of your questions are second hand from friends who nearly always misinterpret the rules and you transmit the questions in an imprecise way.
Being able to cite the rules paragraphs and to use their exact wordings would spare a lot of time and energy.

If it is a financial problem, I can order one for you.
Send me a pm if you want me to do it.
 
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