ASL SCANDINAVIAN OPEN 2020 (February 26th - March 1st)

The Magnus

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  • Updated list of registered participants. Stands at 40
Congratulations, this makes ASO the by far most popular ASL tournament in Europe. The "fight" for second place in 2020 will be very tight though :) (Grenadier, Supporting Fire, Bounding Fire).
 
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Juan SantaX

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Is there any time limit to register? I would like to go, but its too early to arrange things...
 

STAVKA

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Magnus wrote:
Very interesting indeed, we could probably all use 1.5 days of intensive Para Drop training (including myself :) ).

It is just unfortunate that you have scheduled this tournament to run at the same weekend as the 21st ASO tournament in Copenhagen! This will force many Swedes to have to choose between the two of them. Not good for the hobby, IMHO.

Answer: You are wrong and not humble.

Magnus Wrote:
I think we are splitting hairs here. If you read my sentence verbatim you will see that I do not say that battleschool dice are forbidden in Sweden. I said "I have yet to attend a single non-Swedish tournament where battleschool precision dice are forbidden, or even frowned upon. ".

As an example of the rules in Sweden we can take the Supporting Fire rules: "Only Precision Dice with dots (only) are allowed. One dice should be white, and one should be coloured (transparent or not doesn't matter). If both players agree you may use other dice." Thus, battleschool dice are not totally forbidden at this tournament, but one player can force another player not to use battleschool dice. I am not aware of this kind of "veto power" against battleschool dice at any tournament outside of Sweden (though I have not attended them all, and thus I can be proven wrong).

To elaborate on my previous statement: the only logical consequence of the Stockholm ASL community's boycott against ASO in Copenhagen, grounded in the lack of "veto power" over which dice can be used during a game, must be that no ASL player from Stockholm can attend any future ASL tournament outside of Sweden. Forever. Period.

That is sad. For you.

PS. I do not use Battleschool dice myself, but I have no problem with people using them.

Answer: veto power and whatnot, just accept we do not consider the Battleschool dice to be fair, even compliant when the gulag symbol had vanished and the die showed a blank side, the TD thought it was alright.

Magnus wrote:
Well, no, I want to talk about the Stockholm ASL groups refusal to go to tournaments where they do not have veto-power over what dice can be used. As you so clearly stated in the final minutes of Supporting Fire, you would consider going to Copenhagen (and thus presumably any other non-Swedish tournament) "if they change the dice rules" (the other 25 odd participants be my witness). So this is not really about ASO, but about Stockholm.

Answer: For you information , you are correct. We do not want to experience a bad new phenom in the hobby, but why do you find it such a bigly thing, that we do not participate, and do our own thing.

The Danes will not change the dice rules.

Compliants about the enforcement of the IIFT for years, no reaction, some Americans arrive and tell them that they will refuse to play the IIFT, change of Tournament rule immediately.

Complaints for years, about that Kindling is NA should be implemented as a standard rule for all scenarios, no response.
Had to burned down a whole forest to make the change happen
, because first when the offended Italian player compliant about it, they changed the rule.
 
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tunixx

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(...)
Answer: veto power and whatnot, just accept we do not consider the Battleschool dice to be fair, even compliant when the gulag symbol had vanished and the die showed a blank side, the TD thought it was alright.
(...)
Would you care to tell us what in particular you think is unfair about the Battleschool dice ? The only thing unfair I could think of would be if the dice were loaded.
 

STAVKA

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Would you care to tell us what in particular you think is unfair about the Battleschool dice ? The only thing unfair I could think of would be if the dice were loaded.
Sure, in the post you quoted there you can read that symbols wear off and vanish, the TD had no problem with it, I had.

Here is the picture of a massmurderer printed on one of many of battleschool non-precision dice.
- Not even the manufacture coy sell these type of engraved dice as Precision dice only the Canadian guy claim them to be such, perhaps good for buisness, but not tested as such.
 

RandyT0001

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Sure, in the post you quoted there you can read that symbols wear off and vanish, the TD had no problem with it, I had.

Here is the picture of a massmurderer printed on one of many of battleschool non-precision dice.
- Not even the manufacture coy sell these type of engraved dice as Precision dice only the Canadian guy claim them to be such, perhaps good for buisness, but not tested as such.
So what test did you do to determine that they are not 'precision' dice? Or what test should the seller do to certify the dice as 'precision' dice?

Can you provide a copy of the statement from the manufacturer of the dice that states these dice are not 'precision' dice?
 

STAVKA

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So what test did you do to determine that they are not 'precision' dice? Or what test should the seller do to certify the dice as 'precision' dice?

Can you provide a copy of the statement from the manufacturer of the dice that states these dice are not 'precision' dice?
Battleschool Dice seller, have written that the producer have never done this dice with hundreds of different symbols before, and the assumptions are that they are not weighed and measured , when asked which coy he use, he refuse to tell despite a handful of request. Here follow a description of a Backgammon producers process and my dice can be balanced on the edge corner. Perhaps they are fair by mishap, regardless of the gulag symbols have vanished or not , but we doubt that these type of non-precision battleschool dice would be allowed in any Backgammon tournament where big dollars are at stake, if you think differently, good for you. Still the symbols are a disturbance in themselves.

Producers write:
Backgammon Player jewels! The most important of all in a backgammon set. Each of the 21 pips are drilled to identical depths, and to ensure that all 6 sides maintain equal weight, the holes are then filled with a special white epoxy with the precise weight and density of the material that was removed during the drilling process. Every die is measured and weighed with the greatest possible care to ensure that all rolls are random. They are made by Gamblers General Store USA, the official supplier to Las Vegas and Monte Carlo. It is possible to test the accuracy of precision dice by getting a die to stand on the corner edge on a flat surface. (You should not be shaky).
 

The Magnus

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Magnus wrote:

It is just unfortunate that you have scheduled this tournament to run at the same weekend as the 21st ASO tournament in Copenhagen! This will force many Swedes to have to choose between the two of them. Not good for the hobby, IMHO.
Sorry to all of you who just want to read about ASO in this thread, but a long discussion we had over on the thread covering the new and directly competing Stockholm ASL tournament was selectively moved here by Melvin/STAVKA. As for my complete opinion, please refer back to the original thread or just do what I now do - look forward to Copenhagen end of February.
 

bo_siemsen

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Is there any time limit to register? I would like to go, but its too early to arrange things...
Just get in touch with one of us when you know. We will welcome you with open arms.
Obviously we prefer early entries - for our planning etc. We need to be reasonably sure that the finances work out. But we accept later registrations of course. The more the merrier.
 

The Magnus

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why do you find it such a bigly thing, that we do not participate, and do our own thing.
Sorry, sorry, but I just have to respond to this sentence.

I do not think it is a big or bad thing that you do not participate in ASO, that is your sovereign choice. There are supposedly even a few tournaments in the world that I do not participate in :) , and nobody has called me "bad" because of that (I have even been "forgiven" for not traveling to Bodö i January).

Moreover, I do not think it is "bad" that you do not participate in ASO due to "the dice issue", if this issue is critically important to you this is again your sovereign choice. Just as long as you consequently do not participate in any other tournament with similar "dice issue".

I do think that it is bad style to organize a competing tournament on the same weekend as ASO. For the same organizational effort from the side of the TD's of the two tournaments, some of us 8 Swedish players attending ASO could have attended two tournaments, ASO and the Stockholm tournament, had they not been on the same weekend.
 

bo_siemsen

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Magnus wrote:
Very interesting indeed, we could probably all use 1.5 days of intensive Para Drop training (including myself :) ).

It is just unfortunate that you have scheduled this tournament to run at the same weekend as the 21st ASO tournament in Copenhagen! This will force many Swedes to have to choose between the two of them. Not good for the hobby, IMHO.

Answer: You are wrong and not humble.

Magnus Wrote:
I think we are splitting hairs here. If you read my sentence verbatim you will see that I do not say that battleschool dice are forbidden in Sweden. I said "I have yet to attend a single non-Swedish tournament where battleschool precision dice are forbidden, or even frowned upon. ".

As an example of the rules in Sweden we can take the Supporting Fire rules: "Only Precision Dice with dots (only) are allowed. One dice should be white, and one should be coloured (transparent or not doesn't matter). If both players agree you may use other dice." Thus, battleschool dice are not totally forbidden at this tournament, but one player can force another player not to use battleschool dice. I am not aware of this kind of "veto power" against battleschool dice at any tournament outside of Sweden (though I have not attended them all, and thus I can be proven wrong).

To elaborate on my previous statement: the only logical consequence of the Stockholm ASL community's boycott against ASO in Copenhagen, grounded in the lack of "veto power" over which dice can be used during a game, must be that no ASL player from Stockholm can attend any future ASL tournament outside of Sweden. Forever. Period.

That is sad. For you.

PS. I do not use Battleschool dice myself, but I have no problem with people using them.

Answer: veto power and whatnot, just accept we do not consider the Battleschool dice to be fair, even compliant when the gulag symbol had vanished and the die showed a blank side, the TD thought it was alright.

Magnus wrote:
Well, no, I want to talk about the Stockholm ASL groups refusal to go to tournaments where they do not have veto-power over what dice can be used. As you so clearly stated in the final minutes of Supporting Fire, you would consider going to Copenhagen (and thus presumably any other non-Swedish tournament) "if they change the dice rules" (the other 25 odd participants be my witness). So this is not really about ASO, but about Stockholm.

Answer: For you information , you are correct. We do not want to experience a bad new phenom in the hobby, but why do you find it such a bigly thing, that we do not participate, and do our own thing.

The Danes will not change the dice rules.

Compliants about the enforcement of the IIFT for years, no reaction, some Americans arrive and tell them that they will refuse to play the IIFT, change of Tournament rule immediately.

Complaints for years, about that Kindling is NA should be implemented as a standard rule for all scenarios, no response.
Had to burned down a whole forest to make the change happen
, because first when the offended Italian player compliant about it, they changed the rule.
Melvin,
We respect that you dont want to come to ASO any more. But, there's a saying in danish (roughly translated) that means if you don't have anything nice to say, dont say anything. I dont think your characterization of our tournament or our decisions over the years is accurate. at all. We always welcome (and invite!) input, but that doesn't mean we let outside factors dictate our tournament. We listen, we consider and then we make our own decisions. We put quite a bit of time and effort into making it the best tournament we can.

Given that you don't intend to come to our tournament I would invite you to unsubscribe from the thread and at least show us that respect. You just have to click "unwatch" at the top of the page.


Best Regards


Bo
/ASO
 

STAVKA

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Sorry to all of you who just want to read about ASO in this thread, but a long discussion we had over on the thread covering the new and directly competing Stockholm ASL tournament was selectively moved here by Melvin/STAVKA. As for my complete opinion, please refer back to the original thread or just do what I now do - look forward to Copenhagen end of February.
You are just too much, derail others thread is ok by your lofty standard, but this thread that the subject is really about is considered "selectively moved". Learn to start a thread a new thread or post me directly.
 

STAVKA

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Melvin,
We respect that you dont want to come to ASO any more. But, there's a saying in danish (roughly translated) that means if you don't have anything nice to say, dont say anything. I dont think your characterization of our tournament or our decisions over the years is accurate. at all. We always welcome (and invite!) input, but that doesn't mean we let outside factors dictate our tournament. We listen, we consider and then we make our own decisions. We put quite a bit of time and effort into making it the best tournament we can.

Given that you don't intend to come to our tournament I would invite you to unsubscribe from the thread and at least show us that respect. You just have to click "unwatch" at the top of the page.
Best Regards
Bo,
We respect that you do not want to come to Sweden any more. But, there's a saying in Russia (roughly translated) that means: Made up claims can take you forward but not backwards,
- I dont think your characterization of your tournament or your decisions over the years is accurate.

I have all intention to come to your tournament, but I have no intention to travel alone, if none of my friends want to invest time and money to travel to your tournament, then it will not happen.

Asked to run a small cheap (always cheaper than Copenhagen at least) tournament and try out new concepts like: Hatten, Para Drop, Dinant, secret FrF, etc

Should invite you to withdraw your request, and invite you to block me if you do not want to see my replies to Magnus-urge to downtrotten parts of our community.

Best regards

Melvin Falk
 

The Magnus

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You are just too much, derail others thread is ok by your lofty standard, but this thread that the subject is really about is considered "selectively moved".
Melvin, we have covered a lot of subjects today in two different threads: the fact that your new tournament coincides with ASO, dice/dice rules, IIFT, Kindling. All but the first topic were initially raised by you, btw. But my very initial statement (in "your thread"), and my final statement (in this thread three posts up) summarize my opinion (I do not really care whether you go to ASO or not, or what dice you consider proper, or Kindling for that matter). I repeat my final statement for clarity:

I do think that it is bad style to organize a competing tournament on the same weekend as ASO. For the same organizational effort from the side of the TD's of the two tournaments, some of us 8 Swedish players attending ASO could have attended two tournaments, ASO and the Stockholm tournament, had they not been on the same weekend.

Do you really believe that this criticism of the new Stockholm tournament is best placed here in the ASO thread, instead of in the Stockholm thread? The ASO TD's can hardly be held responsible for you organizing a new tournament on the same weekend they have held theirs for 20+ years.
 

bo_siemsen

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Well, blocking you wouldn't mean the thread didn't get derailed now would it :)

I feel it is a shame that you feel the need to continue to post so negatively about our tournament in the thread designed to promote the tournament. Some of the stuff you post ... like the kindling stuff ... I think that dates back close to 20 years ? Certainly well before I got involved. I think you should move on.

I can mainly speak about how we work since I got involved with the tournament and my description is accurate. We consider input and impressions from players and other tournaments, we discuss them and then decide if we need to make adjustments to our rules or setup. Your description of the IFT/IIFT default fire table change is just flat out wrong. I know how that decision was made. I know why it was made. What I dont know is why it matters.

For the record - I haven't decided against going to Sweden. In general I have less desire to go to tournaments than I used to. I consider Borås every year. I really like the concept they have there. November has been a bad time of year for me in recent years though. When I was there in 2018 I wasn't quite about to relax and focus which meant it wasn't all that great a weekend for me. Probably influenced me for 2019. 2020 could be more possible due to a change in work schedule.


Best Regards


/Bo
ASO
 

STAVKA

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... Some of the stuff you post ... like the kindling stuff ... I think that dates back close to 20 years ? Certainly well before I got involved. I think you should move on.
I can mainly speak about how we work since I got involved with the tournament and my description is accurate.
Since you are not correct when telling us about the kindling stuff....
How can I trust you memory/made up claim on the other stuff.

Kindling was allowed between 1998-2007 in SCO, tried to convince Michael to ban it the first year 1998 and thereafter.

Here check 2007 my play against Enrico in scenario SP 133, Kindling is NA was implemented the year after 2008.
Edit: Here is SP133
 
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bo_siemsen

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Oh Melvin,
So because I can’t remember whether it was “almost 20 years ago” or “only about 13 years ago” that someone else made a decision that means I am a liar and you know better how and why decisions are made since I’ve gotten involved. Ok, thanks man. Appreciate your input, we will take it under consideration :).

Perhaps you could start a new thread for the topic of your grievances, to spare this ASO thread further. Please:)

What I can say to would-be participants at ASO:
- our goal is always to make the best and most enjoyable event for as many as possible. And I think we’ve done a pretty good job of it over the years. If you have ideas to make our event better, don’t hesitate to contact us and we will consider them. I look forward to our upcoming 23rd edition of ASO. Hope to see many of you there.

Best Regards


Bo
/ASO
 

STAVKA

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Think you started the lying-calling and I rejected your wording.
And you continue to do it, how are you?

Think Magnus derailed this thread post 8, and even asked him to post me directly for any questions. Instead he have choosen to uplift a non-issue to something important (for him at lesst).

Bo wrote:
I dont think your characterization of our tournament or our decisions over the years is accurate. At all.
...Some of the stuff you post ... like the kindling stuff ... I think that dates back close to 20 years ? Certainly well before I got involved.
 

Vinnie

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Hey, from an onlokers point of view, I would never have considered reading this thread or going to Copenhagen if it were ot for this spat. Now I'm checking out flights....

looks like the earliest I could get there would be 2.30pm. I take it I'd be better arroiving the day before?
 
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