ASL products for November?

DLYoung70

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I apologize to any who may have been upset by my tone, and to Scott for offering to kick his ass *lol*. I meant that in a figurative "I'm trying to make a point" sense, I do not condone violence in any way (except against fanatical Russians and maybe those Hungarian Mechanical Engineers).

It's simple. Scott is right. MMP isn't doing so hot. Their combination of a paucity of new products and the unavailabilty of many "existing" products is awful.

But Scott, it's your tone that is wrong... insulting the intent, and even person, of anyone who tries to explain why things are the way they are, and why while it would be nice if things were better we also must realize that ASL would have died completely without MMP, is simply uncalled for. It does no good. I'm fairly certain it actually does some major harm.

I'm not saying you should get off the soapbox, man! I'm just begging you to change the speech, and the tone of the rhetoric, that you shout from up there. For the good of the community, and for the good of the game.

Darrell
 

Gunner Scott

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Hi-

Darrell; no problem, ya I can be grating at times, but you have to realize, back in the day, ASL had such a huge following. MMP made many promises to the old guard that has turned to dust in the wind. You said the ASL fan base has shrunk in the last three years in another post, why do you think that is? I think it's due to MMP's lack of concern for the ASL hobby in general. Ya eventually they will come out with AoO when who knows, but it will come out and will it be a good module?


Scott
 

purdyrc

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My 2 Cents (as if it were necessary)

I'm just getting into ASL in the last two months. I played SL back in the 80's but didn't make the move to the varsity squad until just recently. So here's my 2 cents on this thread (consider it an effort to raise my rating in this forum if you disagree :) ):

I think the venomous, condescending posts are not constructive. I know I don't come to this forum very often because of them. I don't like to sift through so much chaff just to find a nugget or two of useful information. I can imagine that the negative posts turn a lot of other folks off as well.

As for MMP, I think the QUALITY of their output is great - far above the older AH modules I've picked up "mint" off of e-Bay. I wish I didn't have to shop on e-Bay with the attendant "e-Bay" prices, but that's the way it is now. MMP knows that people are not happy about their production schedule and I think they are working on it. These guys have other jobs. No one can make a full time living (at least in the Baltimore-Washington metro area) making and selling wargames. In the short-term, perhaps, but not in the long run.

If anyone is dissatisfied by current events, then by all means do something constructive about it (constructive being the operative word). If you think MMP is slow, offer to help them out. Some folks on this forum seem to have all the time in the world. Why not give some of it to the hobby you profess to love so much and help out running down publishers, proofing copy, helping with layout, playtesting, or any of the other myriad tasks that go along with producing complicated products like ASL.

And for those of you who really think you can do better if you ran ASL, then contact Hasbro, lay out your case, hire a team of lawyers, and go for it! Take advantage of the copyright and intellectual property laws in this great nation of ours and make a go of it. In short, put your money where your mouth is.

As for MMP being responsible for the downfall of the hobby, I think it mostly has to do with people's lives intruding on their hobby, not with MMP's slow production schedule. I know for me, I went off to college, got married, started a job, started a company, and had kids. I'm just getting to the point in my life when I can kick back and spend a little more time on frivilous things like wargames. I don't want to waste what little free-time I have reading through flame-posts and whining about slow production schedules. If MMP were in the business of producing important stuff like toilet paper (or something else that would make life really, really terrible if it wasn't available), then I think the vehemence would be warrented. But, as has been said many times throughout this thread, it's just a game. If you aren't having fun with it, it may be time to move on to something else instead. But don't try to ruin it for those of us who are still enjoying it.

Because you don't have a right to do that.

- Rick
 

Matt Romey

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SGT HOLST said:
look at their supporters, not one is a Louie Tokarz, Rob Banozic, Bob Macnammera, Kurt Martin, Rex Martin, Don Greenwood, Bob Bendis, Mike Mcgrath and so on. If I saw those guys supporting MMP, then I would have a change of hart. Kinda tell's ya something huh?

I agree that we have lost many of the champions of the hobby. Youse and Shilling and Cocke used to be vocal champions, and of course they still are in effect, I mean they make the dang thing. But I have to think they’ve just gotten a little burned out on ASL. Not only because they do it all the time as a 2nd job, but they get constant grief, so who needs that?

The loss of the guys you mention above really hurts too. For that reason and others (getting older, kids, job losses, war, etc.) I think there has been a definite relaxation of ASL enthusiasm in the past 2-3 years.

In the absence of champions at the head of the hobby, I think the only way to maintain that enthusiasm is to work at the local level. I’ve seen what’s happened in SoCal and I’ll tell you that the leadership portrayed by a few good men here has made a big difference in keeping the enthusiasm high. Jim Aikens, Matt Cicero, Rob Feinstein, Paul Simonsen, these are the future McGrath’s and Tokarz’s of the ASL world. Maybe they don’t all play as well as those guys did, but they get new and old players alike enthused about ASL. All the time. Which is what it’s all about.

MMP can say screw this and close up shop, and who knows what will happen after that? But if we all follow the lead of men like Jim Aiken’s, I think the future of ASL will still be bright.
 

DLYoung70

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Scott,

I think there are much deeper reasons for the shrinking of the community.

1) Boardgames themselves are no longer the norm. Everything is on the PC. Even ASL... without VASL we might be looking at a very dead hobby, or at least one limited to playing the same one or two opponents for life unless you're able to travel to a convention. New gamers are picking up computer games, not board games. Our hobby is like a tennis player using a John McEnroe-style wooden racket (circa 1980) trying to compete against guys with composite graphite rackets with the enlarged hitting surface. We're archaic.

2) The complexity of the game itself, combined with the price, is a huge mitigating factor. No one in their right mind wants to spend $50-100 on just a rulebook, especially one that is totally useless without another $30-infinity spent on whatever modules are needed to play. No one in their right mind wants to read a rulebook that's the size of the Warren Report. It's a niche hobby, and those aren't the type of things that stick around long. The fact that it's still alive at all is, in itself, amazing, and a tribute to what a great game ASL is.

3) Once taking over from AH, MMP has indeed struggled. But I honestly think they're doing the best they can. Maybe their idea of "right and wrong" differs from yours, but I do get the feeling they're at least trying. AH bailed for a reason... the boardgame market is slowly dying, and it's premier line (ASL) is not exactly a money maker. With the combination of high production costs and small market, I imagine it would be difficult just to break even. MMP is able to keep some costs down because they in fact are not a "company" as much as a bunch of hobbyists keeping ASL alive as their second job. While Curt makes a decent (okay, insane *lol*) living doing what he does, I have no idea what Brian and Perry and Keith or anyone else at MMP does to pay their bills. It isn't MMP that's keeping their kids in A&F, that's for sure. So it goes both ways... they keep costs down by not having a fulltime operation to be concerned with, but this effects their ability to be as productive as maybe we'd all like, because it is in fact 100% secondary to whatever puts the food on their dinner table.

I think there are many things that could be done better. I also know that without MMP, it would be far worse. Am I happy that it ain't perfect? No way! But I do understand the "big picture" enough to know it could be a lot worse. There is no one else that can step up. TPP know this. You don't see the HOB or (don't hit me Priest!) CH operations jumping in and saying they could do it right and begging for the Hasbro contract. There are reasons for that. It sucks, but that's life. Do you want slow, aggravating, sometimes OOP for way too long ASL? Or would you prefer no ASL at all except what can be found in bargain bins and on eBay?

Here are my simple (or not *lol*) suggestions to MMP to make things tolerable:

1) Put the RB is electronic format, and make it free. I've posted elsewhere about this, so I won't bore you with the details about why it makes both marketing and economic sense. For those who want printed copies, make them available on demand only, at cost (which could be quite high if they're only printing 5-10 at a time). The hardcore will ante up, the average player will download.

2) Fix the mess with the core modules. Each should contain the countermix for one (or more, in cases like BV or GH) combatant, and then meet two simple requirements. First, it should clearly state which other modules are necessary for COUNTER purposes (i.e. Yanks requires BV in order for the Ami's to have some Krauts to shoot at). And second, it should contain any mapboards necessary to play the included scenarios unless they are in a required-for-counters module (i.e if a Yanks scenario needs board 20 from BV, that's okay because you need BV for counters... but if a scenario needs board 8, it should be in the dang box. You shouldn't have to buy other modules for boards, only for counters!) It's okay to have the same boards in multiple modules (see next item). We'd rather pay an extra $2 for a needed board than $55 for a whole other module! And what to do about the WoA/FKaC mess, I have no idea *lol*.

3) I love the new boards as a cost-saving measure. I hate them as an exclusive option. Put them in the modules the new way to keep costs down. But PLEASE offer them in mounted form on the website. Like the printed RB it may be a very limited market that wants them, but for god's sake don't take the option away! ASL is the exact type of hobby that should have both a "mainstream" product that is reasonably cost-effective and some "high end" options for the hardcore. Oh, and while we're at it, how about making the coloring consistant, so that each terrain type on every board looks the same as another.

4) Commit to the core, and let the world know that THAT is the focus. If MMP never put out another annual/journal, never did another HASL or HS, never so much as issued another new "official" product, I DON'T CARE! Just get the core right, and concentrate on getting it out to the masses (SK's are a great idea, but they need available "real" ASL behind them to grow the hobby, else you end up with two distinct niches as some have mentioned). If time or profits allow for a new HASL or Journal or even just a scenario pack, GREAT! But if not, at least support the core 100% and without fail. TPP will give us plenty of of toys... MMP should first and foremost concentrate on ensuring the core stability, and only then extend itself where possible.

Okay, I'm tired of blabbing, and you're tired of reading. It's not my company, so they don't have to listen to a darn thing I say. Scott is not my son, so he can continue to shout as much as he wants. It'd just be a whole lot nicer if it weren't so angry and vengeful.

Darrell
 
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RobZagnut

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Again & again & again &again...

Just got back on after a long layoff from this forum. Looks like Holst is up to his old tricks again (off his meds?). He starts a flame war and watches it burn. "MMP is the devil" "MMP sucks because they won't sub-license ASL" (They are not allowed by Hasbro, but he blissfully ignores this fact) "Anybody can do it better." (Nobody stepped up and paid the $50,000 to get the license, so it's another straw man). Yada yada yada.

It happens every 6 months after he is finished playing AD&D. He quits playing his Dwarven Fairy and his ragging on TSR\Wizards Coast about AD&D and switches back to ASL and ragging on MMP.

This has been a constant cycle for the last 5 years. You would think he would come up with new material. New observers to his old tricks are best warned just to ignore his rantings until he switches back to AD&D.

I'm perfectly happy with MMP and the state of ASL. I just got back from Wild Westfest and had a grand time (repeat champion), so his doom & gloom predictions are so far short that it is comical to read. The Starter Kit was THE perfect product for us ASLers. Any time that you read that ONE player has started playing ASL due to the SK it is a success, but there have been a number of these similar stories.

I was in on the playtest of Valor of the Guards and it is now finished, so I know that modules are in line to be printed. Can they be faster? Yes, but as a guy who works 7:00 am - 4:00 pm I know I couldn't do it any better than Brian or Perry who both also have day jobs AND more importantly children to spend time with.

Let's put this in perspective shall we? How many of you would rather have Armies of Oblivion, Valor of the Guards, Ortona, Journal #6, Beyond Valor #3 (w 12 boards), Starter Kit #2, ASL Rulebook, the Finnish module and Red Oktober in the pipeline than have Holst's wish and have MMP go away and some other company attempt to come up with $50,000 and their own celebrity that would even allow them to put a foot in Hasbro's door and have ZERO official ASL products for the next 10 years? HoB, CH and SP wouldn't, because they are already putting out what they want for free without a single cent going to Hasbro.

So Holst, go back to AD&D and rag on Orc-Boy for a while.
 

Gunner Scott

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Hi
Rob trolls;
<<Just got back on after a long layoff from this forum. Looks like Holst is up to his old tricks again (off his meds?). He starts a flame war and watches it burn. "MMP is the devil" "MMP sucks because they won't sub-license ASL" (They are not allowed by Hasbro, but he blissfully ignores this fact) "Anybody can do it better." (Nobody stepped up and paid the $50,000 to get the license, so it's another straw man). Yada yada yada.>>

Rob, perhaps you should read the postings before commenting on the subject at hand. MMP had set-up a new contract with Hasbro earlier this year and they could have changed the clause to include sub-licenseing ASL out, but they did'nt Why?

Rob Trolls on;
<<It happens every 6 months after he is finished playing AD&D. He quits playing his Dwarven Fairy and his ragging on TSR\Wizards Coast about AD&D and switches back to ASL and ragging on MMP.>>

Oh please Rob, like your brother PVT Mosher, you think MMP does no wrong and how dare the unwashed masses even slight Curt/ MMP. You and your brother are getting hero worship confused with gaming.

Rob go on;
<<This has been a constant cycle for the last 5 years. You would think he would come up with new material. New observers to his old tricks are best warned just to ignore his rantings until he switches back to AD&D.>>

Sure Rob, what ever you say, your the man.

Rob writes;
<<I'm perfectly happy with MMP and the state of ASL. I just got back from Wild Westfest and had a grand time (repeat champion), so his doom & gloom predictions are so far short that it is comical to read. The Starter Kit was THE perfect product for us ASLers. Any time that you read that ONE player has started playing ASL due to the SK it is a success, but there have been a number of these similar stories.>>

So Rob, where is this new guy gonna get the ASLRB? Or Beyond Valor once he is done playing the ASLSK? Those items are out of print you know.

Rob whines on;
<<I was in on the playtest of Valor of the Guards and it is now finished, so I know that modules are in line to be printed. Can they be faster? Yes, but as a guy who works 7:00 am - 4:00 pm I know I couldn't do it any better than Brian or Perry who both also have day jobs AND more importantly children to spend time with.>>

MMP seems to have no problem getting non-ASL games out the door, what makes ASL the exception? Why is MMP able to produce non ASL games so fast? please enlighten me Rob.

Ron goes on and on;
<<Let's put this in perspective shall we? How many of you would rather have Armies of Oblivion, Valor of the Guards, Ortona, Journal #6, Beyond Valor #3 (w 12 boards), Starter Kit #2, ASL Rulebook, the Finnish module and Red Oktober in the pipeline than have Holst's wish and have MMP go away and some other company attempt to come up with $50,000 and their own celebrity that would even allow them to put a foot in Hasbro's door and have ZERO official ASL products for the next 10 years? HoB, CH and SP wouldn't, because they are already putting out what they want for free without a single cent going to Hasbro.>>

Rob your talking vapour ware, MMP has been promising those modules for the last five years with the only exception being the ASLSK. Hell's Bell's, the ASLRB and BV have been out of print for three years or so, no wonder there are no new players.
Use some sense Rob and dont let your hero worship of Curt blind you, aint he the one that bailed on you during the FFE days back in the early 90's? And Tapio had to bail you out of Debt too after Curt took a powder.

Rob, you need to reevaluate your stance with MMP.

Scott
 

Pitman

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No one has presented any convincing evidence that the ASL community is shrinking at all.
 

M Faulkner

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DLYoung70 said:
Scott,

I think there are much deeper reasons for the shrinking of the community.

1) Boardgames themselves are no longer the norm. Everything is on the PC. Even ASL... without VASL we might be looking at a very dead hobby, or at least one limited to playing the same one or two opponents for life unless you're able to travel to a convention. New gamers are picking up computer games, not board games. Our hobby is like a tennis player using a John McEnroe-style wooden racket (circa 1980) trying to compete against guys with composite graphite rackets with the enlarged hitting surface. We're archaic.

2) The complexity of the game itself, combined with the price, is a huge mitigating factor. No one in their right mind wants to spend $50-100 on just a rulebook, especially one that is totally useless without another $30-infinity spent on whatever modules are needed to play. No one in their right mind wants to read a rulebook that's the size of the Warren Report. It's a niche hobby, and those aren't the type of things that stick around long. The fact that it's still alive at all is, in itself, amazing, and a tribute to what a great game ASL is.

Darrell

I have to somewhat disagree. If you have ever been to Origins, you will see that gaming is not dead. Yes the youngsters today get into the PC and video games, but there is a lot of people playing ftf. It is true that mose of the people at Origins are not war/board gaming, but there are a lot that do. Even the kids playing pokemon and yugio (spelling???) are into that ftf competition appeal. For them, the ASLSK is great. They can pick up one box, have a small amount of rules to learn, and have all the components to play six different games (twelve if you turn them around)with lots of replay value. This can draw more people into the hobby.

On another note, $ can be an issue, but most likely will not (in the long run). Have you seen what some people spend on pokemon, yugio, and magic cards. This is not including AD&D, Shadowrun, and other roleplaying games. While true you only need the player's handbook to play AD&D, have you ever known sombody not to purchase more of the game system. Same with ASL. The price may inhibit some, but once hook people will buy at almost rediculous prices.
 

da priest

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PVT HOLST said:
.. MMP had set-up a new contract with Hasbro earlier this year and they could have changed the clause to include sub-licenseing ASL out, but they did'nt Why? ...
Pvt. Scott
Gadfly has mentioned this several times, and chooses to ignore the facts of Contract negotiating.

The party with the whip hand(Car Dealer vs. you is a classic, you think you could change the terms of a New car purchase contract?) writes the contract, he who writes the contract controls the terms.

We, yes us ASLers, are lucky that Hasborg didn't raise the yearly fee(that's 50,000 a year gents, license purchase price was a lot more).
 

Dr Zaius

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Well, as much as some hate to face the painful facts, there is some truth in what was said earlier about boardgaming. Argue all you want, the glory days of boardgaming are gone and they are not coming back--ever. There are plenty of reasons for this and most of them can't really be overcome.

Does that mean that wargames like ASL or The Gamers series have no future? No, they do. But they have probably been relegated to a niche within a niche within a niche. This is important because without a really large (and growing) fanbase, such a system is simply a dead end from an economic perspective. Guys, even the big names in PC-based wargaming have been slowly dying off over the last few years. They have been replaced to an extent by smaller, independent developers who make just one product. The big wargame companies like Talonsoft are gone. Even mighty Matrix Games is unable to afford to put the majority of its products on store shelves anymore. They are available only via the internet, and it looks like this is going to be the new model for wargame distribution. In simple terms, it means 99% less people are being exposed to wargames because they never see them unless they go and search for them online.

I would not say that the ASL fan base is shrinking, as many of the older players are still active. But no one believes it is actually growing either. This fact is self evident and MMP's problems are proof enough. If there was money to be made hand over fist in this hobby, then MMP would be doing it! The simple truth is that the market is small and it isn't going to grow.

PC-based wargames are improving by leaps and bounds and in another 10 years will be several orders of magnitude more advanced than any design a boardgame could ever hope to be. And all for $50 bucks, plus all the side benefits. Many people do prefer face-to-face play, but the percentage of wargamers who have ever done this is shrinking fast. And don't ever make the mistake of thinking that the PC-based wargamers are part of the "twitch crowd," or are a bunch of snot-nosed teenagers. This hobby is filled with people who are 30-50 years old or older and simply love what PC wargames have to offer.

I guess I am somewhat rare in that I like both types and I can see the advantages of each. I think ASL has a place in this hobby and I do my best to support it (via WHQ). My hope is that wargamers who have never heard of it or seen it, but who do play other types of wargames, will consider trying it. If the hobby is going to survive, then this type of cross-pollination is crucial. Those that call for hiding away ASL on an ASL-only site with an ASL-only forum may be well intentioned, but that is the absolute worst thing you could possibly do for this hobby. You may call it "THE Game," but the majority of gamers have never even heard of it. That's difficult for some of you to grasp a you live in an ASL bubble, but it's the hard truth.

If this hobby is going to have any kind of future at all (besides one or two old farts pushing around counters from an out-of-print module), then it means bringing in new blood. Taking an antagonistic approach toward newcomers or other types of wargamers is a surefire recipe to turn people off in droves (and I'm not suggesting anyone here is doing that).

Even the strongest tree has to bend with the wind or break.
 

paulkenny

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excuses aside then Ron, your comment on the $50K licensing fee is all the more reason to get the job done and produce stuff and have large enough print runs.
 

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missing the point?

Hi-

Look, I really dont want to drag this out, but there seem to be some misconceptions. ASL was exceptional because everybody was having a great time creating there own scenarios, modules and what have you. MMP and AH brought The hammer down and everybody was told to either change thier layout or get taken to court.
Alot of bitterness resulted from Curts back hand blow against the ASL publishing community and ASL fan base in general.

Alot of excellent publishers like ToT decided to break camp and head to the hills. Many others either dropped from the hobby or had set-up shop but with ugly layouts and clip art.
TPP's love or hate them were such a dynamic in the ASL community. It was always fun going to ASLOK and see'ing scenario packs from the paddington bears or Gary Fortenberry's ASLUG in full ASL glory. Now, I dread buying TPP's just because the layout is so hard to read, now where is the ELR?
This is not a slight against the TPP's its just a fact of life.

You want more people to play ASL, get involved in ASL, then open ASL up to the community again and belive me, MMP would be making money selling its modules and what. Ah well, I guess ASL will be stuck in a nich status for some time. Is a shortsighted outlook good?

Scott
 

da priest

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SGT HOLST said:
Hi-

... there seem to be some misconceptions. ...

Alot of excellent publishers like ToT decided to break camp and head to the hills.

Scott
Yes there are a lot of misconceptions..and this is right up a the top of the list.

MMP's required enforcement of the AH copyrights had little to do with ToTs demise. Mark had a lot of personal issues paramount in his thoughts causing the end of ToT/KE and I leave it at that...
 

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PVT Mosher is MMP paying you to defend them? Are you their new mouthpiece? You truly do not know what your talking about.

Scott

PVT Mosher said:
Yes there are a lot of misconceptions..and this is right up a the top of the list.

MMP's required enforcement of the AH copyrights had little to do with ToTs demise. Mark had a lot of personal issues paramount in his thoughts causing the end of ToT/KE and I leave it at that...
 

RobZagnut

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Not again!

>MMP had set-up a new contract with Hasbro earlier this year and they could have changed the clause to include sub-licenseing ASL out, but they did'nt Why?

You don’t get it. I don’t expect you with your 6th grade education to get it, but let me try one more time. Hasbro and I’ll say it again Hasbro doesn’t want sub-licensing. You can’t keep on blaming MMP for that.

>So Rob, where is this new guy gonna get the ASLRB? Or Beyond Valor once he is done playing the ASLSK? Those items are out of print you know.

They already printed a second issue and another is in the works. What more do you want? Kind of goes against your theory that ASL is dying out if the second printing sold out. I'm glad to see that more are 'on the way', but I'm happier that the Starter Kit came out first.

>MMP seems to have no problem getting non-ASL games out the door, what makes ASL the exception? Why is MMP able to produce non ASL games so fast? please enlighten me Rob.

Dean Essig is producing the Gamers games, which is the reason they are coming out so fast. The same thing for Mike Rinella and his games. Brian and Perry lost the help of Steve Peterson, Russ Bunten and Curt which means they are now trying to do the work of 4 guys and still keep their day jobs. Under the circumstances they are doing a great job.


>Use some sense Rob and dont let your hero worship of Curt blind you,

Aren’t you letting your hate for Brian, Perry and especially Curt blind you? I call it as I see it. Face it. Without MMP ASL would have been dead along time ago. Nobody would have reprinted The Rulebook, nobody would have reprinted Doomed Battalions and Beyond Valor with Red Barricades. There would be no Starter Kit (which my 9 year old LOVES). Without MMP ASL would have died a slow death. Yes, there would have been scenarios and module packs put out by CH and HoB, but without someone to print the rulebook and core modules it would have died long ago. Open your eyes.

>aint he the one that bailed on you during the FFE days back in the early 90's? And Tapio had to bail you out of Debt too after Curt took a powder.

Another incredible story! Where do you get your facts? Who told you that Tapio bailed me out of debt? I was never in debt. I had plenty of money from FFE. Enough to travel to ASLOK, Avaloncon and The ASL Open every year. You call that debt! Curt understandably got busy with baseball. I merged with Gary Fortenberry and his ASLUG Newsletter, but he got the job with Avalon Hill. Remember Annual 95? That was his. Fort suggested that I merge with this guy named Tapio and his Trailbreak Newsletter. Tapio fed me a line and wanted to charge money for everything that FFE gave away for free. Remember free FFE t-shirts, the promised free ASL index, Japanese & Italian AFV cards, etc. I didn’t want to charge for them, because I had promised that they would be free. Plus, Mike Telson sent me three scenarios and they appeared in the next issues of Critical Hit with ZERO playtesting. It was no longer fun and I wanted no part of it any more. A labor of love as an ASLer had turned into a shrewd business and I got out. I never was in debt a single penny. Whoever told you that bull is a liar. Plus, with a partner who is a millionaire how could I ever go in debt? I could have just asked Curt for the money and he would have sent it in a second. Someone out there is a liar.

>Rob, you need to reevaluate your stance with MMP

Holst, you need to get a spell-checker and get lost.


>Alot of bitterness resulted from Curts back hand blow against the ASL publishing community and ASL fan base in general.

Again, a requirement from Hasbro to keep the ASL license. Hasbro was protecting it’s interests thru MMP. But your bitterness towards MMP keeps you from seeing the facts. If Hasbro lets 3rd Party Publishers continue to use their ASL graphics and content Hasbro loses the rights to enforce their ASL license. A sound business decision. Try opening a fast-food restaurant with a large yellow M and a clown called Ronald and we’ll see how fast the attorneys come running, but I don’t see you bashing McDonalds for protecting their rights.
 

zgrose

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da priest said:
We, yes us ASLers, are lucky that Hasborg didn't raise the yearly fee(that's 50,000 a year gents, license purchase price was a lot more).
Yikes, all the pre-orders for ASLRBv2 don't even bring in that much revenue let alone net income.
 

da priest

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RECRUIT HOLST said:
.. You truly do not know what your talking about..
Let's see, your name is somewhere in the ToT publications? You hung with all the ToT guys in LA, or was it in KC?

Sigh, I have tons of KE/TOT playtest stuff here, guess I imagined getting it from Mark...so what do you think a copy of the Saving Noreiga Scenario with Mark's map and scenario card, along with the Mark's designed counters is worth?
 

Chris Milne

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You know, I'm amazed at the patience of you guys. Tabby keeps spouting his lines, and you all keep reiterating events, knowing full well that it makes no difference to him. I take my hat off to you.

So, Tabby, which of your angles are you going to present to the world next? Will it be one we haven't seen before? Fat chance. About as likely as someone ever swallowing your stories...
 
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