ASL didn't make the list of most complex boardgames

[Actionjick]

I was looking at Google yesterday and one of the articles was the 10 most complexi boardgames. I quickly scanned the article and SL/ASL was nowhere to be found. I'm not sure what criteria the authors used to compile their list but just a casual look at the ASLRB should convince anyone that ASL definitely belongs at the top of the list.

Thoughts on this or perhaps a different perspective are welcomed.

Btw never played any of the games that made the list and only heard of one or two of them.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Btw never played any of the games that made the list and only heard of one or two of them.

Because they are overly complex, thus hardly playable.
ASL is under many aspects quite intuitive.
Heavy rules, certainly. But an elegant, coherent system.

 

[Actionjick]

Because they are overly complex, thus hardly playable.
ASL is under many aspects quite intuitive.
Heavy rules, certainly. But an elegant, coherent system.

Very nicely said. Thanks for the input!

 

[pwashington]

I wonder if you asked Chat GPT what the most complex wargames are what list you'd get.

 

[von Marwitz]

This is what the google query spits out.


Now have a look at rank 4 - Food Chain Magnate:



Really!?
How pathetic.
[EXC: Maybe, in case some food chain magnate has devoured 99.99% of the playing pieces, maps, cards & rules before taking this picture.]

So, the casual glance seems to reveal that the google list is rubbish.

I doubt that chatGPT will provide (or invent) a much better answer, but I am open to be convinced otherwise.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

Browsed a bit...

There are endless numbers of "These are the most complex games" lists around. ASL does feature quite often, but more often seem other games that I do not believe are comparably complex as ASL.

"The Campaing in North Africa" is listed often as well. I have - surprise - not played it. Maybe some of its reputation for complexity stems from the required number of players (10), the amount of time required to finish the campaign (62 days of 24 hours), and some rules going into notorious micro management (as the amount of water required to let the Italians boil pasta or the amount of gasoline evaporating dependent on the type of jerry can).

von Marwitz

 

[Eagle4ty]

Perhaps because ASL/SL is not a game, it's an experience; For me a lifelong one.

 

[ozradio]

View attachment 26953

This is what the google query spits out.


Now have a look at rank 4 - Food Chain Magnate:

View attachment 26954

Really!?
How pathetic.
[EXC: Maybe, in case some food chain magnate has devoured 99.99% of the playing pieces, maps, cards & rules before taking this picture.]

So, the casual glance seems to reveal that the google list is rubbish.

I doubt that chatGPT will provide (or invent) a much better answer, but I am open to be convinced otherwise.

von Marwitz

Food Chain Magnate is a highly respected and heavy strategic boardgame (with mediocre production quality) with a BoardGameGeek rating of 8.1, which is very high. Its weight is a 4.2 while ASL clocks in at 4.7 on BGG. Its publisher, Splotter, is a Dutch company that puts out notoriously strategically complex (not necessarily complex rules; the rulebook is 14 pages) for quite high prices. FCM probably sells for around $100. All of those games on the list would be widely considered heavy Euro strategy games by most boardgame hobbyists. All that to say, war-games and strategy boardgames cannot really be meaningfully compared, imo, though people are probably more than happy to debate that.

 

[Actionjick]

Food Chain Magnate is a highly respected and heavy strategic boardgame (with mediocre production quality) with a BoardGameGeek rating of 8.1, which is very high. Its weight is a 4.2 while ASL clocks in at 4.7 on BGG. Its publisher, Splotter, is a Dutch company that puts out notoriously strategically complex (not necessarily complex rules; the rulebook is 14 pages) for quite high prices. FCM probably sells for around $100. All of those games on the list would be widely considered heavy Euro strategy games by most boardgame hobbyists. All that to say, war-games and strategy boardgames cannot really be meaningfully compared, imo, though people are probably more than happy to debate that.

Thanks for the input!

 

[asloser]

Perhaps because ASL/SL is not a game, it's an experience; For me a lifelong one.

To me ASL is a lifestyle choice.

 

[von Marwitz]

All that to say, war-games and strategy boardgames cannot really be meaningfully compared, imo, though people are probably more than happy to debate that

I agree with you.

Yet, I still think, when comparing "heavy" Euro games with "heavy" war-games, that the latter "heavy" category is more ponderous.

von Marwitz

 

[Larry]

Chat GPT rates complex wargames:

Complex war games often involve detailed rulesets, intricate strategies, and historical accuracy. Here are some of the most complex war games, as of my last knowledge update in September 2021:

1. Advanced Squad Leader (ASL): ASL is known for its incredibly detailed rules covering World War II infantry combat. It has numerous expansions and modules, making it one of the most complex war games available.

2. World in Flames: This grand strategy game covers World War II on a global scale, featuring economics, diplomacy, and warfare, and it can take hundreds of hours to complete.

3. War in the Pacific: Focusing on the Pacific Theater of World War II, this game is known for its immense scope and attention to detail.

4. Paths of Glory: A card-driven game covering World War I in Europe, emphasizing strategy and diplomacy.

5. The Campaign for North Africa: Mentioned earlier in the context of board games, it's also one of the most complex war games ever made, simulating World War II in North Africa with a high level of detail.

6. Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan: This is a deep and complex game about the Japanese Warring States period, featuring intricate block-based gameplay.

7. Europa Universalis: The Board Game: Based on the popular video game series, it offers a complex simulation of global politics and warfare during the Renaissance and Enlightenment eras.

8. Great Battles of History (GBH) Series: This series includes games like "SPQR," "Alexander," and "Caesar: Conquest of Gaul," and they focus on historical battles and campaigns with detailed rules and counters.

9. Empire of the Sun: A complex game covering the Pacific Theater of World War II, featuring card-driven mechanics and in-depth naval and air warfare.

10. A World at War: A sprawling game that covers all aspects of World War II, including diplomacy, economics, and military operations.

Please note that the complexity of war games can vary significantly, and the level of complexity that you prefer may depend on your gaming group's experience and interests. Additionally, new war games are developed over time, so there may be newer complex war games available since my last knowledge update.

 

[von Marwitz]

Chat GPT rates complex wargames:

Complex war games often involve detailed rulesets, intricate strategies, and historical accuracy. Here are some of the most complex war games, as of my last knowledge update in September 2021:

1. Advanced Squad Leader (ASL): ASL is known for its incredibly detailed rules covering World War II infantry combat. It has numerous expansions and modules, making it one of the most complex war games available.

2. World in Flames: This grand strategy game covers World War II on a global scale, featuring economics, diplomacy, and warfare, and it can take hundreds of hours to complete.

3. War in the Pacific: Focusing on the Pacific Theater of World War II, this game is known for its immense scope and attention to detail.

4. Paths of Glory: A card-driven game covering World War I in Europe, emphasizing strategy and diplomacy.

5. The Campaign for North Africa: Mentioned earlier in the context of board games, it's also one of the most complex war games ever made, simulating World War II in North Africa with a high level of detail.

6. Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan: This is a deep and complex game about the Japanese Warring States period, featuring intricate block-based gameplay.

7. Europa Universalis: The Board Game: Based on the popular video game series, it offers a complex simulation of global politics and warfare during the Renaissance and Enlightenment eras.

8. Great Battles of History (GBH) Series: This series includes games like "SPQR," "Alexander," and "Caesar: Conquest of Gaul," and they focus on historical battles and campaigns with detailed rules and counters.

9. Empire of the Sun: A complex game covering the Pacific Theater of World War II, featuring card-driven mechanics and in-depth naval and air warfare.

10. A World at War: A sprawling game that covers all aspects of World War II, including diplomacy, economics, and military operations.

Please note that the complexity of war games can vary significantly, and the level of complexity that you prefer may depend on your gaming group's experience and interests. Additionally, new war games are developed over time, so there may be newer complex war games available since my last knowledge update.

This list sound not unreasonable at all. I have to admit that chatGPT surprised me on this one!

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

Chat GPT rates complex wargames:

Complex war games often involve detailed rulesets, intricate strategies, and historical accuracy. Here are some of the most complex war games, as of my last knowledge update in September 2021:

1. Advanced Squad Leader (ASL): ASL is known for its incredibly detailed rules covering World War II infantry combat. It has numerous expansions and modules, making it one of the most complex war games available.

2. World in Flames: This grand strategy game covers World War II on a global scale, featuring economics, diplomacy, and warfare, and it can take hundreds of hours to complete.

3. War in the Pacific: Focusing on the Pacific Theater of World War II, this game is known for its immense scope and attention to detail.

4. Paths of Glory: A card-driven game covering World War I in Europe, emphasizing strategy and diplomacy.

5. The Campaign for North Africa: Mentioned earlier in the context of board games, it's also one of the most complex war games ever made, simulating World War II in North Africa with a high level of detail.

6. Sekigahara: The Unification of Japan: This is a deep and complex game about the Japanese Warring States period, featuring intricate block-based gameplay.

7. Europa Universalis: The Board Game: Based on the popular video game series, it offers a complex simulation of global politics and warfare during the Renaissance and Enlightenment eras.

8. Great Battles of History (GBH) Series: This series includes games like "SPQR," "Alexander," and "Caesar: Conquest of Gaul," and they focus on historical battles and campaigns with detailed rules and counters.

9. Empire of the Sun: A complex game covering the Pacific Theater of World War II, featuring card-driven mechanics and in-depth naval and air warfare.

10. A World at War: A sprawling game that covers all aspects of World War II, including diplomacy, economics, and military operations.

Please note that the complexity of war games can vary significantly, and the level of complexity that you prefer may depend on your gaming group's experience and interests. Additionally, new war games are developed over time, so there may be newer complex war games available since my last knowledge update.

Thanks for the input!

 

[L Bunny Niyori]

The problem lies in the word 'complicated'.

ASL is not 'complicated'. The manual is a long read, but so is the dictionary.

I've tried to figure out Cataan that I play on Steam, and the rules never seem clear. Or rather the game experience never seems to mesh with the rules. I read them, and then try and play, and in the end I'm just guessing a lot.

There is no guessing with Squad Leader or ASL. Less with ASL than Squad Leader as well. ASL is just 'more' game than day 1 Squad Leader.

Some confuse 'tedious' with 'difficult'. It takes longer to play a turn with 1000 counters than one with 100. So it follows that 10,000 counters is going to be significantly longer to play a turn. But my The Longest Day game (the large red box AH title) is one of the simplest games I own.

The very first scenario, The Guards Counterattack, is NOT a hard thing to learn. And from it grew and incredible wargame.

 

[Psycho]

I was looking at Google yesterday and one of the articles was the 10 most complexi boardgames. I quickly scanned the article and SL/ASL was nowhere to be found. I'm not sure what criteria the authors used to compile their list but just a casual look at the ASLRB should convince anyone that ASL definitely belongs at the top of the list.

Thoughts on this or perhaps a different perspective are welcomed.

Btw never played any of the games that made the list and only heard of one or two of them.

how hard can SL/ASL be if I can play it, nerdzilla?