ASL Counters

Should ASL counters be changed with more colors per unit and the graphics redone?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 23.8%
  • No

    Votes: 80 76.2%

  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .

Priest

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You know, I can see Mark's point. These counters are rather old and they could be moved up to the 21st century, but, why stop there? I mean the maps are just as old so why not redesign all of the maps and bring them up to 21st century standards as well? As long as we are at it the rulebook could stand some updating, after all if the counters and the maps are going to be redesigned why not the rulebook as well? Why we will have a brand new 21st century ASL in no time. :D
 

GVL

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I vote Yes. The counters are oldfashioned and sometimes difficult to read. It's very difficult to read the names of the AFV and guns. When I started to play ASL, I didn't like these counters. I was used to very colourful, beautiful counters as they are used in " Vae victis ", a french wargame-magazine.
It was because a friend of mine always insisted to try to play ASL, I tried at least.
The attraction of ASL are not the counters, but the "game system" and the details.
Beautiful counters make the game more attracting for new players.
If a new player can choose between a beautiful,colourful wargame and an oldfashioned, difficult to read wargame, I'm sure he will choose the colourful wargame.
I never played ATS, but the counters seem very attracting to me.
 

Brian W

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M Faulkner said:
Mark, Can you give some examples of how you think the counters could be updated for the 21st century?
You know Mike, I have asked that before from Mark and even suggested that by providing some examples he might gain more support for new counters. In fact, I think that Mark might even look into producing a set for sale himeself.
 

Mark Warren

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I voted no. I think the counters are fine as they are. I really like the elegant simplicity of the colour scheme.

That said, if a variant set of counters were made then I'd probably buy them anyway, but I don't think its necessary.
 

ON TOP ASL

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Keep the old one's!

I woted NO. I really like the style, simple and functional.

There was a time when I was a bit fanzied about Black SS counters, but I have even grown away from that part.
Chess, (this thread remainds me about the time when i looked at different Chess-boards with pieces, nowadays i just appreciate the game itself, as of ASL).

Also, with new counters, there will be new errata of graphics, do we really need that?

P# for personal counters, NOW that would be cool,
6+1 Nygårds
;-)
 

rdw5150

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"Roger, there's a significant difference between what you can do with counters now and what you could do in 1980. The real revolution began in the early 1990s (ironically, one of the only good things that FGA ever did)."

That’s not what I meant. I know we CAN do a lot more with counters, but, WHO is doing it?

I pulled out some of my recent purchases of stuff released in the last few of years (trying to pull games from different companies):

-A World at War- same, 1970's looking counters

-A Fearful Slaughter-while there is some improvement, color wise, I see no "major" leaps forward.

-Dreadnaughts-like I said the AP counters of those ships are great, I give you this one

-Clash of Giants-same old boring 1970's counters

-Streets of Stalingrad-even this game, with all of its flash, has basically the same counters as the original version.

-AETO, some color, but most of it looks the same, but, this one is a toss up.

Is it just ASL you think needs and upgrade or counters in most war games?

I guess I just do not see the big "change" that you did in the 1990's as well as in today’s war games.

It seems to me that counters do not make the game. People are still playing ASL, Europa (talk about boring coutners), the old SPI classics, etc., because they are good games, not because of flash and flair.

End the end, IMHO, MMP has WAY too mant thing on their plates to even worry about this :D

(insert whatever AOO comment anyone wants to make here). :rolleyes:

Peace

Roger
 

rdw5150

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"Pete, yes, I do think there is a silent majority, based on conversations I have had over the past few years. But even if there were not, I would be content to be in a John the Baptist role, because bringing ASL into the front ranks of wargame graphics is something I believe strongly in."


Gotta be honest with ya here Mark, no one I have talked to about ASL complains about the counters. As a matter of fact in 4 years of "living" ASL, its never even came up in a conversation at conventions, e-mails, or face to face.

Of course you not withstanding :D

Peace
 

CDT LUPPO

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the "style" of the ASL counters belongs to the swiss school of graphism...

if one is going to make/create a new set of counters, then this individual have to "justify" his choices...
(that's a technical step where you explain why, the goals, the effect etc etc)

so, Mark (and others!) what do you think should be changed on those points (not limitative !)
- background colors
- drawings of soldiers/postures/uniforms
- colors of uniforms
- variety of leaders aspects
- typos of infos
- symbology for infos ( assault fire/smoke exp/spraying fire, troop quality etc etc )

that's where the intresting point is lying.

i'm not opposed at all to a new set of germans counters : if well thought and well realized : it could be a good argument for choosing asl. graphics are important, even if i think that the actuals counters are among the very best ones out there...my opinion is that it doesn't means that there can't be an improvement...



ps : for klaus Fischer : hello klaus ! could you put more pictures of yours colorised counters ??? with a more close view...
 

Klaus Fischer

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CDT LUPPO said:
ps : for klaus Fischer : hello klaus ! could you put more pictures of yours colorised counters ??? with a more close view...
Hi CDT Luppo,

I did, it's the http://www.heatofbattle.com/aar.htm
But please remember we're talking two different issues here. These counters aren't meant to replace ANYTHING. They are additions, especially for OFS/KC:
For OFS we are currently considering several aproaches. As said we won't issue these counters just to issue new, colored counters. IF, then we will issue them for a reason - to distinguish CORE from AUX.
I don't even know if it really works, or if it's worth the hassle. I just remember that the first playtests indicated a lot of book-keeping and sorting, especially when it came to CORE/AUX. With the last PT results I haven't heard these complaints anymore....so maybe there's no need to do those counters at all????
Thanks

Klaus
 

Hutch

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My vote is No. I would rather see the development time used for completeness of rules, new design, and great scenarios, etc. Adding multicolors to the counters would be "eye candy" for the game. Yes, you can say that the colors can be used for different armor factors, small target etc. But I feel (my opinion) that the circles, squares, outlines work just fine. Besides I don't want to buy more Planos, or cut any more counters than I have to.

'Nuff said

For those of you who don't know; A complete updated (07 September 04) AH/MMP ASL Armory (Chap N, Excel File)and Mapboard, Mapsheet, Overlay (Excel File) is available for download in the File Archives, up to and including the ASL SK#1. An HTML file plus the above Excel files are also located at aslwebdex.net
 

GVL

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Klaus,

These counters are excellent. They look great.
 

Gunner Scott

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Agreed, the counters look good, but they could look great if you removed the HoB watermark in the backround.


Scott
 

Sgt. Przybylo

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I voted no, but...

I voted no, based on the "limited resources" argument. I really like the HOB counters Klaus has shown to distinguish CORE from AUX units. Would I pay for some to play with if they came out? Probably. Thats part of my addiction.

Lets get the priorities set, i.e. finish the projects that are in the queue right now. Otherwise, perhaps MMP can license someone to do it?
 

D-ploy

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Graphics on counters

Hi,

when I first saw the ASL counters I had some distinct associations regarding some of the images:

[This is meant somewhat humourous, so please don't flame me :clown:]

Broken Squads: "Why are they sleeping/doing push-ups?"
Kneeling Broken Leader: "Even he does not want to hear about AoO delays any more"
Broken leader against rock: (It took me some minutes to figure out it was a rock) "I think the sentence starts with 'Open sesame ...'"
Crew: "I wonder what the rules for lighting a campfire are?"

So basically I like Klaus' coloured counters very much, since it is a lot easier to find out what the pictures actually display.

Oliver
 
Last edited:

cujo8-1

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Let's concentrate on keeping the game components is stock rather than reinventing things as we go along.
 

purdyrc

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After seeing Klaus's counters....I'm not so sure now. They look great (please get rid of the HoB though). If they came out, I would likely buy them but only if they looked this good or better.

- Rick
 

Robin Reeve

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If somebody would create wooden counters, engraved in different metals per nation (steel for the Jerries, bronze for the Russians, silver for the GIs, tin for the Italians, etc... and of course gold for the Brits [oh excuse me, I am unfair : platinum for the Brits :devil: ]), I would buy the whole set and stick it in a bank (I live in Switzerland) and wait value to increase...
I bet it would be a better investment than cardboard out-of-print wargames... :cool:
 

alanp

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I was thinking of something similar, Robin: some sort of durable plastic with micro-chips inside and little screens on them showing animated pictures of "assault fire" or "broken men".

Now, THAT'S 21st century; one or two added colors is 20th century and I won't buy it - unless that's how AoO comes out :D
 

mkirschenbaum

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I'm a little surprised at the vehemence with which some have reacted to the ideas about color counters. No, I'm not suggesting that MMP drop all of its longstanding ASL projects and throw their resources into the production of new countersheets. But the "beauty" of ASL has always been an explicit part of its appeal, from the days of old Avalon Hill catalog copy. Even the small touches of color on the cave counters in J2 demonstrate, IMO, the difference that color can make. I also understand that counters will be colorized in MMP's re-issues of Panzerblitz and Up Front.

One option might be "deluxe" color countermixes for some classic, well-loved scenarios--"Hill 621," maybe (just an arbitrary example). Presumably this would have to be a DTP effort, as I'm sure actual print runs of countersheets for single scenarios is well beyond absurd from a marketing standpoint. The idea wouldn't be to strong-arm people into emptying the current contents of their Plano into the wastebasket, but to provide an "enhanced" experience for a few specific scenarios, much like custom 3-D maps or other play aids now do. Just a thought.
 
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