ASL Counters

[Pitman]

Roy, you don't have to buy a gol-darned thing. Nobody does. But don't stop other people from getting 21st-century counters.

 

[Chas Argent]

I don't mind the new HoB counters, but I would be curious how much cost they would be adding to the Kampfgruppe Commander product. I have lots of German 467 squads so I don't need redesigned ones to play it. But if it costs an additional $10-$15 to have the new counters...I dunno if that's worth it. I'd rather spend the money on the product, not the counters.

 

[Pfc TAZ]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Yes. I would buy all new counters if they were in color. Why? I like buying ASL stuff. It is my second vice...I can never have too much. Never! :devil:

I bought BV in 1986 and have just about everything from initial release. It would be nice to spice up the boring old 4-6-7 counters.

A change would be great. I mulled over buying all new ASL stuff after I got back in the hobby earlier this year, before I learned it was mostly OOP...

 

[Pitman]

Roger, I fully expect the poll results here to reflect a majority against new counters. That's because there are a core group of ASLers who are reflexively against any change whatsoever, even for the better.

That does not bother me. The vast majority of wargamers out there prefer better looking counters, and unless ASL dies, in which the case becomes moot, the cavemen here will gradually become replaced by people who like electricity and penicillin. Again, I think it is only a question of whether MMP sees the light or if a TPP decides to try to take advantage of it.

The latter already would have been the case had Critical Hit not proven themselves awful in counter graphic design. My hopes now rest in HOB, but if not them, then someone else down the road.

Like Neo in the Matrix, I think it is inevitable.

 

[rdw5150]

Mark, I gotta question....

When did companies even start using new 21st century counters?

The Avalange Press stuff is great, as is the World in Flames stuff, but, for the most part it seems that games still come out with basicaly the same countes as in 1980. Granted there is some color, but not a ton that I can see.

Then again I did not go looking through all my post 1990 games (YET).....

Peace

Roger

 

[Roy]

Roy, you don't have to buy a gol-darned thing. Nobody does. But don't stop other people from getting 21st-century counters.

Ok, cool. I won't buy them.

Oddly enough, I've never stopped anyone from doing anything in ASL.

Just look at my old ladder record.

However, if someone wants opinions (and that's what was going on here), I've usually got one! :crosseye:

 

[Priest]

NO !! NO !! NO !!

There's an old saying that says if something ain't broke DON'T FIX IT !!

 

[Nat Mallet]

Some of you guys make me laugh. "No, no, don't give us electricity, we love the simplicity of burning wood." "Penicillin, who needs it?"

We're now comparing counter upgrades to the discovery of penicillin?!

I think it doesn't make a difference one way or the other.

More stuff is always good, especially for those that have all of the current ASL stuff. For those who don't think new counters are important, they can add it to the end of their gift list.

If the counters were to impact the release of new material (as opposed to replacement material, like new counters), then I might object.

But otherwise, what difference does it make?

Nat

 

[Countertroll]

I voted no
I use penicillin
Electricity powers the computer that I am on now
Mark does not speak for me
I have no fear of change, although question the value of change for change sake.
I see no value in wasting time overhauling the counters simply to add some flash
And we all know that Mark would not buy them from MMP right now if they did it anyway

 

[WaterRabbit]

I agree with Kenn here. I also live in a wooden single-story building not a cave. If you like flash, micro-armor provides the solution. The counters as they exist are clean and free from unnecessary distraction. Make the flashy counters in VASL if you must.

I don't think Mark's realizes the inherent irony of his 'opinion'.

 

[Pitman]

Micro-armor is not counters. I don't play on VASL. I'm tired of 1977 counters. It is time to step into the 21st century. Almost everybody else has. Why not ASL?

"No, no, I like my Model T."

Kenn, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Roger, there's a significant difference between what you can do with counters now and what you could do in 1980. The real revolution began in the early 1990s (ironically, one of the only good things that FGA ever did).

 

[Countertroll]

Mark, you do not play VASL? join the 21st Century. (OK, I had to do it, I know that I am baiting you).

I am not sure what was 'not to get' about my comments. I was simply stressing the I am neither stuck in the 70s nor afraid of change.
I would not stand in the way of counter changes, but do not currently see any reason to waste the MMP man hours to pursue them.

 

[Pitman]

What I didn't understand was your remark that I wouldn't buy the counters.

 

[Countertroll]

Because AoO is not out yet and you are buying no more MMP product until it is.
Now, once it is out, that is a whole new ballgame.

 

[pryoung]

I'm tired of 1977 counters. It is time to step into the 21st century. Almost everybody else has. Why not ASL?

Again, Mark, you're welcome to think what you want. You're welcome to disparage anyone who disagrees as being cavemen, as you have done. Clearly, the majority of players responding to this poll (so far), as well as the majority of responders to the multiple threads on this topic here, on CSW and on the ASLML don't agree with you (and haven't agreed with you in the past). At what point do you continue claiming that those opposed are a "core" of players, while the majority of ASLers want new counters? Where is your evidence? Is there some silent majority out there you're counting?

Pete

 

[Pitman]

Kenn, you have it wrong. I have committed not to buy any *non-ASL* MMP products until AOO comes out.

Pete, yes, I do think there is a silent majority, based on conversations I have had over the past few years. But even if there were not, I would be content to be in a John the Baptist role, because bringing ASL into the front ranks of wargame graphics is something I believe strongly in.

 

[M Faulkner]

because bringing ASL into the front ranks of wargame graphics is something I believe strongly in.

Mark, Can you give some examples of how you think the counters could be updated for the 21st century?

 

[Countertroll]

oops, I misquoted, sorry; and here I thought I was being clever.

A different approach...

Since you would like to see the counters updated, do you have any suggestions on how? (font/point/images/colors/information changes)

The even bigger question is, how could you endorse that much labor when the ASLRB is not even is stock? It seems like such a low bang for the buck. I agree that placing OBs on the P# would certainly demonstrate if there really is a demand or not, but at what cost would that work come at? I mean in both price to purchase and reduction in throughput; a rate that we already know how many feel about.

(keep this conversation up and I may make E7 before the night is up..)

 

[RobZagnut]

>That's because there are a core group of ASLers who are reflexively against any change whatsoever, even for the better.

I don't mind change. Heck, I work with computers and they change constantly. I disagree with you for other reasons. I might vote yes when I see The Rulebook #2, Beyond Valor #3, Valor of the Guards, Red Oktober, Journal 6 & 7, Ortona, the two new Action Packs, Budapest, Manilla and ASLSK 2 & 3.

I just don't see why it is such a big deal to you. I happen to think that the ASL counters are gorgeous. I prefer them over the colorful Avalanche and GMT counters. That doesn't mean I live in a cave. I just like the way the counters look now. I like the single color with black silouettes. The AFV counters are awesome. I think any more color would distract from them. I own HoB's Onslaught to Orsha and I don't like the color in those AFV counters. Too busy.

Remember that we are talking about peoples opinions. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us wrong. I still haven't bought a whole set of unmounted maps. I happen to like the mounted boards better. You might disagree with that, but that doesn't mean that MMP should change to unmounted only, because you think they should.

It's like arguing over a book or a movie. You are never going to find a 100% opinion that agrees with you. That doesn't make us wrong, just makes us different. Currently, you've got an unbalanced scenario at 75/25 in favor of no new counters. What are you going to do to balance the scenario and convince us that MMP needs to waste time and resources by printing new counters?

The evidence that I present that unbalances the scenario even more in the other direction is what happens to new players when they see that new counters have been issued and it's going to cost them $300 extra to get these counters? They think that I've already spent $150-300 on all these modules and these counters are worthless? Seems to me that quite a few of them are going to throw up their hands in disgust and say screw it. New counters will send a message, but is it the right one? I don't think so.

 

[David Goldman]

I voted yes for a simple reason. My counters are old, tired and need to be replaced. Were MMP to redesign and publish the counters after AOO comes out as a separate boxed set, I could replace all my counters in one purchase. Assuming that the economics are viable I strongly suspect that if moderately priced, many others would refresh their counter sets. If the numbers work for MMP so that the price is not through the roof I bet they could make a tidy profit.

MMP also would acquire a parts inventory at reasonable cost.

Just my thoughts.