ASL Campaign Games are inherently better than scenarios

Pitman

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I have been playing ASL for quite some time now, and I think one thing is clear: between the two main ways of playing ASL, campaign games and standalone scenarios, campaign games truly are superior.

There are a number of reasons for this. The first and most obvious reason is that the maps are infinitely better--not only are you not playing on a tiny little half geo-board, but you are playing on a map designed to recreate the actual terrain. You can see Arnhem bridge, right there, on the map! It is not represented by a generic river board and 4 cardboard bridge counters.

The second reason is that you actually get to strategize. Campaign games have both breadth and depth that scenarios simply lack. You have to plan over space and you have to plan over time. There is no "how can I win on the last turn" mentality; you have to figure out how to win in the long haul.

A third reason is that you get more choice. You can select parts of your OB; you can enhance your forces to suit your particular strategy.

A fourth reason is that you have far more decision-making; you are forced far less by artificial SSR imposed events or constraints. There is no 3rd turn reinforcement that will always enter on a particular hex just in time to make taking building X more difficult. No--problems don't come up for you unless your opponent is crafty enough to make them come up. He doesn't get to rely on the scenario designer to bail him out.

There are just no two ways about it--campaign games are so superior to regular scenarios that the latter should be played far less. Grow some testes and commit yourself to playing the Man's Version of ASL!
 

AZslim

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I have been playing ASL for quite some time now, and I think one thing is clear: between the two main ways of playing ASL, campaign games and standalone scenarios, campaign games truly are superior.

There are a number of reasons for this. The first and most obvious reason is that the maps are infinitely better--not only are you not playing on a tiny little half geo-board, but you are playing on a map designed to recreate the actual terrain. You can see Arnhem bridge, right there, on the map! It is not represented by a generic river board and 4 cardboard bridge counters.

The second reason is that you actually get to strategize. Campaign games have both breadth and depth that scenarios simply lack. You have to plan over space and you have to plan over time. There is no "how can I win on the last turn" mentality; you have to figure out how to win in the long haul.

A third reason is that you get more choice. You can select parts of your OB; you can enhance your forces to suit your particular strategy.

A fourth reason is that you have far more decision-making; you are forced far less by artificial SSR imposed events or constraints. There is no 3rd turn reinforcement that will always enter on a particular hex just in time to make taking building X more difficult. No--problems don't come up for you unless your opponent is crafty enough to make them come up. He doesn't get to rely on the scenario designer to bail him out.

There are just no two ways about it--campaign games are so superior to regular scenarios that the latter should be played far less. Grow some testes and commit yourself to playing the Man's Version of ASL!
Wow, Pitdude, I know you are trying to start a debate, biut I like 'em both.
 

Vinnie

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It's been quite a while since I've read something so off the wall! CGs better than scenarios? Maybe in your world you like to stick to a comfortable containable situation where a one size solution can be applied.
CGs may have nice maps but if you want Arnhem bridge go buy a postcard!
scenarios place you front and centre to the action focusing your limited resources upon the problem that requires to be dealt with immediately without giving you the luxury of limiting your goals for this game to exploit them next. CGs allow you to play on your opponents weaknesses especially wrt his PMC.…Red Barricades anyone?

The joy of q scenario is it can be as large as the First Bid or Destroy all Monsters taking days to complete or over in 20 minute like Todt from CH! CGs are the large sumptuous table which is spread before you that will make you fat and slothful, scenarist are the titbits and petit fours that make your mouth water and leave you wanting more while also being able to satisfy you a la meze dishes.
 

Pitman

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Well, let's face it, the very things that might make the scenarios more attractive--limited units, limited space, limited time--are also what make them so artificial and arbitrary. It's sort of like saying "Okay, you can play football, but you can only play 10 minutes of one quarter and you can only use 1/3 of your players and five minutes into the game your opponent will get an extra defensive back."
 

AZslim

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Well, let's face it, the very things that might make the scenarios more attractive--limited units, limited space, limited time--are also what make them so artificial and arbitrary. It's sort of like saying "Okay, you can play football, but you can only play 10 minutes of one quarter and you can only use 1/3 of your players and five minutes into the game your opponent will get an extra defensive back."
We used to have great time playing baseball in the street with a car for first and third and a piece of cardboard for 2nd and home.

Most people can't keep a CG setup in their house for ever, and sometimes I like to finish a game in a few hours. Hey if you want REAL war go Iraq of Afghanistan.
 

ecz

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of course it's largely subjective.
is better a wonderful well known woman with whom to live together for five-six months or a wide choice of girls of all ages and races for the same amount of time all weekend ?

:cool:
 

James Taylor

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of course it's largely subjective.
is better a wonderful well known woman with whom to live together for five-six months or a wide choice of girls of all ages and races for the same amount of time all weekend ?

:cool:
You're Italian... don't you get both?

JT
 

Faded 8-1

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Ok, I'll play...

CGs aren't worthy to lick the sweat from beneath my hairy balls.

"Okay, you can play football, but it will take you as long to set-up to play as it does to actually play a game. The score from today's game will carry over to next game, and that score will then carry over to next game, etc, so if you have a bad game today you are truly f#cked. In between games, you can buy new equipment and players, but the only thing worth buying are companies of the crappiest possible players, because they are cheap and because extra bodies win games. There are lots of fun things available to buy - neat toys like remote-controlled footballs and super-heavy shoulderpads - but only dimwitted noobs ever buy them because a company of cheap players is more efficient. So the whole choice is pretty much illusory, and might as well not even exist. Before long there are so many players on the field that you can't even see the yardlines. Executing a single play takes forever because there are so many players. Finally, after investing a huge amount of time and effort in this football game, one player will inevitably give up before the end of the game anyway, because it is so lopsided, making the whole excercise feel like a giant waste of time."
 
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Vinnie

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Limited units? Limited time? You are just describing a CH rather than scenarios!
The beedth and depth of scenarios out there mean that if you want a game with BT7s you can if you want Chinese Assult troops they are there. All CGs limit your choice.
Add to that the arbitrary ending of CG days. You've just burst open the defence and are about to release your armour to debouch into his rear areas when WHAm a dr ends the day with all your guys out of position. What could be mire arbitrary than that?
 

Pitman

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Limited units? Limited time? You are just describing a CH rather than scenarios!
The beedth and depth of scenarios out there mean that if you want a game with BT7s you can if you want Chinese Assult troops they are there. All CGs limit your choice.
Add to that the arbitrary ending of CG days. You've just burst open the defence and are about to release your armour to debouch into his rear areas when WHAm a dr ends the day with all your guys out of position. What could be mire arbitrary than that?
Sure there are fewer CGs out there than scenarios. More's the pity, don't you think? Because they are so obviously better than scenarios that it would be great if people had more options at hand. Wouldn't it be great to have some campaign games on subjects like New Guinea, Myitkyina, the Vosges, Tobruk, and so much more? Because playing a campaign game on Stalingrad is far superior to playing a geomorphic map scenario ostensibly set in Stalingard.

Just think of Blood Reef Tarawa--how often can a scenario let you game a whole action, soup to nuts?
 

Pitman

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Ok, I'll play...

CGs aren't worthy to lick the sweat from beneath my hairy balls.

"Okay, you can play football, but it will take you as long to set-up to play as it does to actually play a game. The score from today's game will carry over to next game, and that score will then carry over to next game, etc, so if you have a bad game today you are truly f#cked. In between games, you can buy new equipment and players, but the only thing worth buying are companies of the crappiest possible players, because they are cheap and because extra bodies win games. There are lots of fun things available to buy - neat toys like remote-controlled footballs and super-heavy shoulderpads - but only dimwitted noobs ever buy them because a company of cheap players is more efficient. So the whole choice is pretty much illusory, and might as well not even exist. Before long there are so many players on the field that you can't even see the yardlines. Executing a single play takes forever because there are so many players. Finally, after investing a huge amount of time and effort in this football game, one player will inevitably give up before the end of the game anyway, because it is so lopsided, making the whole excercise feel like a giant waste of time."
Hey, football has a schedule, and last time I checked, records weren't wiped clean. And managers have to deal with salary caps, too--they can't afford all those wonderful "toys," either. And yet football is pretty darn popular.

Let's face it, playing a football play, or an ASL scenario, may be a fun little thing, but playing a whole football game, or a whole ASL campaign game--there's the real experience.
 

rdw5150

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Agreed, I vastly prefer CGs to stand alone scenarios. A MUCH richer experience with an entire level of challenges to ponder. Not that I dislike scenarios, I just prefer the campaigns.
Agreed!

My two regular games (one FtF and one live VASL) are both CGs and have been for two years (or more).

About the only scenarios I play are PBEM, ASLOK and the occasional out of town visitor.

Mike McGrath and I were talking about this with Burnie at ASLOK and we all agree, CG are the pinnacle of ASL.

Of course the ASL world is so vast, luckily there is something in the game everyone considers the pinnacle of ASL. Mine just happens to be CGs.

Peace

roger
 
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dachda

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Hey, football has a schedule, and last time I checked, records weren't wiped clean. And managers have to deal with salary caps, too--they can't afford all those wonderful "toys," either. And yet football is pretty darn popular.

Let's face it, playing a football play, or an ASL scenario, may be a fun little thing, but playing a whole football game, or a whole ASL campaign game--there's the real experience.
Or perhaps more to the point, playing a whole football season. Who plays this week's game, who's injured, who needs rest, what's the other teams defense like? what new tactics are needed. A campaign game seems to equate more to a whole season, and a scenario to a single game.
 

Tater

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The reason I prefer CG over scenarios...(besides the items Pitman notes)


  • DICE - In any scenario, from 4 - 40 turns, one or two DR/dr rolls and/or series of DR/dr can turn the whole scenario upside down. In CG, because of of force purchases and RePh's a side can "heal" from those devastating DR/dr (or series of).
  • POSITION - In the limited space/time of a single scenario, once your force is out of position it is almost impossible to recover.
  • NO LOSE - Single scenarios tend to have 1, 2 at most, standard strategies for attack/defense. Very little variation for replay and if one departs from the established standards there is no way to win. While even the most scripted CG has exponentially more replayability than any single scenario.
 

ASRomafan

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Add to that the arbitrary ending of CG days. You've just burst open the defence and are about to release your armour to debouch into his rear areas when WHAm a dr ends the day with all your guys out of position. What could be mire arbitrary than that?
that is what house-rules are for. It is arbitrary, and easily fixed by setting a firm number of turns.

As far as the question. I don't think CG's are inherently better, it's just a different experience and different way of playing. I enjoy them and is pretty much all I play these days unless a themed scenario pack interests me like Blood and Jungle or the AK series.
 

Tater

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Hey, football has a schedule, and last time I checked, records weren't wiped clean. And managers have to deal with salary caps, too--they can't afford all those wonderful "toys," either. And yet football is pretty darn popular.

Let's face it, playing a football play, or an ASL scenario, may be a fun little thing, but playing a whole football game, or a whole ASL campaign game--there's the real experience.
The correct analogies would be...

Scenario = Pre-Season Game

CG = Regular Season
 
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