ASL 4 Commissars House - What to do with trenches?

Arch71

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Hey All, im thinking we have been playing trenches wrong or they are the booby prize for this scenario. I have been given 6 x trenches but as per the trench rule - you cannot place a trench on a paved road then it really does not leave many options for trenches on this map?

Any advice?
 

GeorgeBates

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Some rules references that may help you find uses for them:

RB5 Hidden-Mines/Entrenchments (including A-T Ditches; B27.56, O11.621) may be placed in a paved-road hex that also contains shellholes; mines set up thusly can attack regardless of whether or not the unit entering their Location is using the road rate/bonus. A roadblock may also be set up IN a gully or Culvert to block a gully/Culvert hexside. A roadblock IN a gully or Culvert may be crossed by Infantry only via a Minimum Move, does not affect Bypass in adjacent Level 1 Locations, and for LOS purposes is treated as a wall at Level 0 (the level of a unit IN a gully on the RB map).
RB6
Trenches (including A-T Ditches) are considered to "connect" (as per B30.8) to (but not through) all ADJACENT building/rubble Locations [EXC: not to a Location that is rubbled during play of that scenario] (see also O6.21; and O6.6, last sentence). Infantry entering such a building/rubble Location need not pay an extra MF to leave the trench in that Location, but must still pay applicable building/rubble COT. Infantry leaving such a building/rubble Location need not pay an extra MF to enter a "connecting" trench; Infantry may not enter such a trench while using Bypass Movement; nor may they use Bypass MOvement while in such a trench; nor may they exit such a trench to directly use Bypass Movement. A unit entering/leaving a building/rubble Location via a "connecting" trench is not subject to Snap Shots as it does so. A vehicle must pay the appropriate MP-costs/penalty to cross such a trench while using VBM; hence those vehicle types not allowed to cross a trench may not do so while using VBM. Infantry may enter a Fortified Building Location as if that Location were not Fortified provided they enter it from a trench/AT-Ditch that is "connected" to that building Location.​

O6. RB Cellars
6.1
All multi-hex, non-Factory buildings depicted on the RB map contain beneath their ground-level Location (i.e., at building level -1) a RB Cellar level (beneath which is that hex's sewer level, if any).6 A RB Cellar Location is considered the equivalent of another non-rooftop building Location in that hex (even for falling rubble [B24.12] and Victory Condition purposes) except as specified otherwise. The RB Cellar level is ignored when determining the Base Level of a building hex.
6.11 FORTIFIED: A RB Cellar Location is always considered to be a Fortified Building Location with a TEM of +4 [EXC: +3 if wooden]. All Fortified Building rules apply except as stated otherwise. A RB Cellar Location can be Breached (B23.9221) only across a hexside that is common to an ADJACENT RB Cellar Location.
6.2 ENTRY: Only Infantry/SW may set-up-in/enter a RB Cellar, and their presence therein is indicated by placing them beneath a Cellar counter. Infantry may enter/exit the RB Cellar level only via a Stairwell, Manhole, or a "connecting" Trench or Tunnel, and only as per B23.922 [EXC: see O.2A and SSR RB6]. Infantry already in a RB Cellar may directly enter an adjacent RB Cellar Location only if the two hexes involved share a building hexside, as determined by the building's depiction [EXC: if Rowhouse].
6.21 All Trench "connections" (SSR RB6), Manholes, and Tunnel entrances/exits "open into" the RB Cellar level if it exists in that hex [EXC: if the ground level above the RB Cellar has been Rubbled; 6.6]; otherwise, Sewer/Tunnel (B8.) and Trench (B27.5) rules are unchanged [EXC: a tunnel's entrance and exit Locations may be at different levels].​

From the RB SSR and rule book pages O5 & O6. Take a careful look at the examples for the RB Cellar rules there, also.
 

jrv

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Some rules references that may help you find uses for them:

RB5 Hidden-Mines/Entrenchments (including A-T Ditches; B27.56, O11.621) may be placed in a paved-road hex that also contains shellholes; mines set up thusly can attack regardless of whether or not the unit entering their Location is using the road rate/bonus. A roadblock may also be set up IN a gully or Culvert to block a gully/Culvert hexside. A roadblock IN a gully or Culvert may be crossed by Infantry only via a Minimum Move, does not affect Bypass in adjacent Level 1 Locations, and for LOS purposes is treated as a wall at Level 0 (the level of a unit IN a gully on the RB map).
RB6 Trenches (including A-T Ditches) are considered to "connect" (as per B30.8) to (but not through) all ADJACENT building/rubble Locations [EXC: not to a Location that is rubbled during play of that scenario] (see also O6.21; and O6.6, last sentence). Infantry entering such a building/rubble Location need not pay an extra MF to leave the trench in that Location, but must still pay applicable building/rubble COT. Infantry leaving such a building/rubble Location need not pay an extra MF to enter a "connecting" trench; Infantry may not enter such a trench while using Bypass Movement; nor may they use Bypass MOvement while in such a trench; nor may they exit such a trench to directly use Bypass Movement. A unit entering/leaving a building/rubble Location via a "connecting" trench is not subject to Snap Shots as it does so. A vehicle must pay the appropriate MP-costs/penalty to cross such a trench while using VBM; hence those vehicle types not allowed to cross a trench may not do so while using VBM. Infantry may enter a Fortified Building Location as if that Location were not Fortified provided they enter it from a trench/AT-Ditch that is "connected" to that building Location.​

O6. RB Cellars
6.1
All multi-hex, non-Factory buildings depicted on the RB map contain beneath their ground-level Location (i.e., at building level -1) a RB Cellar level (beneath which is that hex's sewer level, if any).6 A RB Cellar Location is considered the equivalent of another non-rooftop building Location in that hex (even for falling rubble [B24.12] and Victory Condition purposes) except as specified otherwise. The RB Cellar level is ignored when determining the Base Level of a building hex.
6.11 FORTIFIED: A RB Cellar Location is always considered to be a Fortified Building Location with a TEM of +4 [EXC: +3 if wooden]. All Fortified Building rules apply except as stated otherwise. A RB Cellar Location can be Breached (B23.9221) only across a hexside that is common to an ADJACENT RB Cellar Location.
6.2 ENTRY: Only Infantry/SW may set-up-in/enter a RB Cellar, and their presence therein is indicated by placing them beneath a Cellar counter. Infantry may enter/exit the RB Cellar level only via a Stairwell, Manhole, or a "connecting" Trench or Tunnel, and only as per B23.922 [EXC: see O.2A and SSR RB6]. Infantry already in a RB Cellar may directly enter an adjacent RB Cellar Location only if the two hexes involved share a building hexside, as determined by the building's depiction [EXC: if Rowhouse].
6.21 All Trench "connections" (SSR RB6), Manholes, and Tunnel entrances/exits "open into" the RB Cellar level if it exists in that hex [EXC: if the ground level above the RB Cellar has been Rubbled; 6.6]; otherwise, Sewer/Tunnel (B8.) and Trench (B27.5) rules are unchanged [EXC: a tunnel's entrance and exit Locations may be at different levels].​

From the RB SSR and rule book pages O5 & O6. Take a careful look at the examples for the RB Cellar rules there, also.

ASL 4 is *not* a RB scenario. None of these SSRs apply.

JR
 
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jrv

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If you plan to defend the 20S6 building, one idea is to put a trench and a unit in 20P7. That prevents the Germans from setting up in the adjacent hexes, gives the unit inside some chance at survival while not giving the Germans anything very useful. 20GG2 seems like a good place for a firelane to start from. U7-U6 look like a combination that might allow a fallback. 20Z0/20X1 might augment the 20Z3 defense.

JR
 

Arch71

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LOL thanks everyone :), I *think* I have already implemented some of your suggestions JR so will check later. Thanks everyone for confirming my general suspicions though :)
 

GeorgeBates

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It's a a lousy scenario, would much rather play the ASL #4 version.
What, did you get spanked by Commissar Denisova? I beg to differ. Scenarios are _always_ better on a historical map, even if the advantage does shift to the Germans (hopefully Red Factories will address this), but even then there's always balance. Same goes for "In Sight Of The Volga" - much more satisfying in the actual terrain.
 

bendizoid

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Lots of people misread or forget the victory conditions in this scenario for some reason. As printed it looks tough on the Russians.
 

Eagle4ty

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Have played the HASL scenario 3 times & all three times it was a blow out for the Germans. They're just too powerful and don't have far to go to accomplish their VCs. My experience as both German & Russian is a 75-80% pro-German feel against a comparable opponent. The original scenario on the other hand, while slightly pro-German, can be managed by a skillful Russian. It is at least a fun scenario with a degree of movement options other than pound away with monster FGs, Assault Move, Advance, Rinse & Repeat tactics to an ultimate German Victory at their leisure.
 
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