As if more proof was needed that gaming is dead

Scott Tortorice

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Re: Battlefield Hardline

That was hilarious! :D The guy is a natural showman.

I saw this news break the other day but never dug into it because I am still trying to keep video games at arms length with all the nonsense that is going on. But based on what I know, this appears to be another new low. The thing that made PC gaming superior to consoles were the many great and FREE mods out there. By doing this, Valve, for reasons that aren't really clear to me, has basically undermined that whole advantage. If Valve hadn't already proved itself to be a PC gaming champion, I would suspect EA or Activision had taken over Steam and is now trying to bring about the final PC collapse. Not only will this negate the sole advantage of PC gaming, but it will also fracture the entire modding scene on Steam.

Really, gaming is becoming more of a joke with every passing month. There will always be good devs out there, but the chaff to fodder ratio remains 5:1.

Glad I continue to keep my distance. I still boot up a few games now and then, particularly at night when I need to unwind (I hate TV, so....), but the overall game scene just feels really dirty to me. Be it books, movies, or any other hobby, once I feel like I need to take a shower after participating in the community, I know that is my cue to move on.
 

shunwick

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Re: Battlefield Hardline

Glad I continue to keep my distance. I still boot up a few games now and then, particularly at night when I need to unwind (I hate TV, so....), but the overall game scene just feels really dirty to me. Be it books, movies, or any other hobby, once I feel like I need to take a shower after participating in the community, I know that is my cue to move on.
I get that feeling myself sometimes.

Best wishes,
Steve
 

shunwick

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Re: Battlefield Hardline

Scott,

Rare? Hmmm....

As I understand it, Bethesda changed their minds regarding paid mods (let's call them Third-Party DLCs) on the Steam Workshop for Skyrim. Valve made the announcement that they are removing the "Paid Mods" functionality from the Skyrim workshop. Presumably the functionality within Steam remains unchanged.

"We understand our own game's communities pretty well, but stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating. We think this made us miss the mark pretty badly, even though we believe there's a useful feature somewhere here."
Steam Workshop, as it stands, is probably not the best distribution mechanism for Third-Party DLCs. There is a tight limit on how large a mod (or DLC) file can be. Quality overhaul mods such as Stainless Steel or Europa Barbarorum II for Medieval II Total War would simply not fit on Steam workshop.

Furthermore, the hands-off policies of Steam are pretty appalling. While there certainly are decent and honest developers in them, Greenlight and Early Access have proven to be a fertile haven for the very worst snake-oil salesmen. For as long as Valve have a policy to rely solely on community curation of these schemes, they will remain open to abuse and infested with charlatans.

There are parts of Steam that resemble the WIld West complete with quacks, gunslingers, and snake-oil salesmen. And the Sheriff has told the townsfolk that they will have to sort out the problems for themselves.

Ambitious developers creating Third-Party DLC (if they are coming from the modding community) also have a problem. Stainless Steel 6.4 is a quality mod. Stainless Steel 1.0 - not so much. Huge potential, of course, but it required extensive testing and feedback from players in order for development to continue. What do you do? Do you charge for an obviously incomplete product? This will destroy your reputation as a modder. Do you release successive versions of the mod for testing and feedback and then, when it's polished to an acceptable degree suddenly charge for every version after 5.6? This is the scheme that undid the Skyrim experiment.

Opening up an IP to allow for Third-Party DLCs is a bold idea (although welding it to "Steam-Workshop Only" is a problem.) It also legitimizes modders for producing free mods (providing it's distributed via Steam?) and for as long as no other IP is infringed. For example, there is no way in hell the Third Age mod for Medieval II Total War could ever be monetized without obtaining the license from the Tolkien IP holder.

IP holders will be watching these development carefully.

Valve has serious problems with its hands-off schemes. Frankly, they are not working or, at least, there is little in the way of consumer protection.

Best wishes,
Steve
 
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Scott Tortorice

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Re: Battlefield Hardline

There are parts of Steam that resemble the WIld West complete with quacks, gunslingers, and snake-oil salesmen. And the Sheriff has told the townsfolk that they will have to sort out the problems for themselves.

Valve has serious problems with its hands-off schemes. Frankly, they are not working or, at least, there is little in the way of consumer protection.
Your two quotes don't just apply to Steam. As this thread indicates :), this is not just a Valve problem but a gaming problem. There have been some breathtaking examples of outright fraud that the gaming community has witnessed these past few years, from indie devs all the way up to the major powers like EA. They are (almost) all operating according to a "catch me if you can" mentality. I've often wondered how they have gotten away with it for so long. Someday I would like to ask a lawyer why that is. Is it because there are few liabilities laws when it comes to computer code? Or is it because gamers are not wont to hire a lawyer and sue over a bad game? Or is there a higher threshold when it comes to proving a software dev did not deliver what he promised (sort of like how proving slander needs to mee a much higher threshold)? Now, I am not saying gaming needs more lawyers, but I am saying that I have no doubt that if gaming was just about any other industry, from automobiles to fast food, the lawsuits these last few years would be flying fierce!

You raise a good point about IP and mods. I was wondering how a modder could charge for content when their content depends upon somebody else's work. I mean, a mod for Skyrim NEEDS Skyrim. How can one person profit off of the work of someone else without sharing those profits with them? It all seems very nebulous to me, legally speaking.
 

shunwick

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Re: Battlefield Hardline

It is an industry-wide problem and taking the industry as a whole, you can also add pirates to unwholesome list.

Steam is the Tesco superstore of the PC gaming world with a rigid no-refund policy and questionable customer support. It is pretty much central to the PC gaming world. It would be nice if it introduced a customer care policy to its band of initiatives.

PC gaming is a multi-billion pound industry. The speed of its growth has outstripped the ability of the law to regulate it. This is where we are at now but it cannot continue like this.

The Wild West was eventually tamed.

Best wishes,
Steve
 

shunwick

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Re: Battlefield Hardline

Francis is happy.

[video=youtube;6-shX34Toyg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-shX34Toyg[/video]

Best wishes,
Steve
 

Scott Tortorice

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I remember this thread! :D

Evidence to back the decline?


Just anecdotal evidence, but my gaming has declined by about 75%. Yeah, I am getting older, but I don't think age has anything to do with it as I never subscribed to the argument that "gaming is kid stuff." For me, it comes down to the fact that I find the vast majority of games, especially AAA games, to be underwhelming, overly buggy messes that never live up to their potential even if they do hit a few sweet spots.

Interestingly, I have instead found myself playing a lot of indie games instead. Case in point: Darkest Dungeon. That would be my Game of the Year for 2016, followed by Starbound and Duskers. Other indie games that have given me far more enjoyment over the years than 99% of AAA gaming are: Frozen Synapse, Shadowrun Returns, Invisible Inc. and NEO Scavenger. All are fantastic experiences that have connected with me in ways that AAA games don't. What they lack in graphics is more than made up for in gameplay and style. Perhaps it is true: perhaps gaming does come down to gameplay vs graphics in the end. For a while there I rejected the notion, but the current state of gaming argues for it.

What do you think?
 

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Well, let me give my view on this. I've been a "gamer" all my life. I first got interested in "computer" games back in about 91 with Microprose's M1 Tank Platoon. The next decade of computer gaming was preparing me for my current job I started in 2003 as a gaming and simulation specialist for the US Army. In my experience, computer gaming saw a boom between 2001 and 2014 or so, at least in the military. The primary reason for this was a loosening of the rules governing unit spending on low-cost, off-the-shelf computer gaming tools for low-level unit training prior to deploying to the GWOT. This also led to a concerted effort by the military to acquire these technologies in an "official" capacity. the death of this boom began with the assumption of control of all military simulations by PEO-STRI, and a consolidation of power of control of money for training tools. The mandate soon went out that no one could use COTS games if the Army didn't own the rights to the software. This meant forcing certain gaming software into areas where the software was inappropriate for the level of training or evaluation required. It continues to this day. This essentially killed innovation in gaming in the military. More pointed, where I work at the US Army Command and General Staff College, we have been forced to transition to a simulation for our exercises that is unfinished and wholly inappropriate for our use, despite the fact that we had a COTS program that we have developed at minimal cost that fit our needs almost exactly. We had also developed other tools for different levels of training and evaluation, but, to be in compliance with the new mandate, we aren't supposed to use them. What we are seeing now, and fully supporting, are individual instructors developing their own manual boardgames to fit their curriculum. I am in the enviable position of creating maps, game pieces, and even helping with creating rule sets. Gaming is NOT "dead", at least not in the sense of being a viable and important tool in military education. Even Kriegspiel is more popular than ever, and it is spreading throughout the military education system. We can make entire games at minimal cost (I 3D print vehicles and counters).

My take on the larger community is that almost everything has been done, and done to death. When the CoD franchise is doing yet another WWII game, it's time to re-evaluate the entire industry. VR is NOT the answer, because it is still extremely expensive, and many people find it uncomfortable, even causing physical illness. Personally, I think that boardgames that require social interaction will see a resurgence. Now, that can take the form of in-person games or, my bet, is a hybrid internet game. What that looks like I can't say because I haven't put much thought into it. It my be a "host" who has a physical game and people connect over a skype-like interface. We are experimenting with something like that here where we put the game board on camera and the host moves pieces IAW the player's instructions. Almost a perfect set-up for an umpire-driven Kriegspiel.

Whatever form it takes, gaming isn't dead, it's just evolving, but more in a "what's old is new" fashion.
 
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