Armored Trains

Tooz

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Looking at this stuff now. However, chrome sometimes is necessary if all ASL possibilities are to be covered. Steve has done a remarkable job so far.
 

sswann

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Yes, chrome is sometimes necessary.
That is why I have the Basic Rules first... followed by a section of Optional (Chrome) Rules.
I am trying to add some chrome without seeming to make them mandatory.
Kind'a like ASL RB Chap A-D, with the Chap E options (or expansions if you prefer that term.)

Some kind of decision on counters are next...
1. Should they be done in the National Colors
or
2. Done in an Generic color like Boats, Wagons, Skies, and etc, etc?

Some input or opinions would be welcomed.
 

sswann

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Oooops!
Went back and read the first few comments of this thread.
It appears that Generic Counters are preferred.
So... Generic it will be, now for the color?
Blue counters are generally water, but generic transport are mostly white (Skis, Horses, Wagons, etc.)
 

von Marwitz

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Oooops!
Went back and read the first few comments of this thread.
It appears that Generic Counters are preferred.
So... Generic it will be, now for the color?
Blue counters are generally water, but generic transport are mostly white (Skis, Horses, Wagons, etc.)
I'd propose generic counters for generic units. There might be some armored trains/wagons that are specific to a certain nationality (The Germans for example used armored trains made up of individual self driven wagons of different specifications that were linked up to form a train.). In such cases, the counters should be in the nationality color.

As the situation in which two armored trains battle with each other of opposing nationalities will probably never come up, no harm is done when mixing generic armored train counters with some specific nationality counter colored ones if need be. And even in the extremely unlikely case of an 'armored train' duel, still nobody would confuse the two trains..

Generic counters are usually black on white (Wagons, Sidecars, Motorcycles, Bulldozers, Skis, Mines, Wire, Parachutes, Horses, ...) as you have pointed out. So this would be my proposal for generic armored train counters as well.

von Marwitz
 
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Khill

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Oooops!
Went back and read the first few comments of this thread.
It appears that Generic Counters are preferred.
So... Generic it will be, now for the color?
Blue counters are generally water, but generic transport are mostly white (Skis, Horses, Wagons, etc.)
can we have both?
 

sswann

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I am looking at Colored RR vehicles on white counters.
Got to have a method of showing both open and closed top RR vehicles.
 

olli

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Far better in National colours , please not generic as lots of armoured trains were specific types . If I was playing a scenario with an armoured train it just seems so wrong to use generic ones
 
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von Marwitz

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I am looking at Colored RR vehicles on white counters.
Got to have a method of showing both open and closed top RR vehicles.
Wouldn't it be better to use a symbol/ or 'OT' imprint for the purpose rather than to add color?

I believe that generic counters should be white to be consistent within the system.

On top of that, I prefer the 'classic' non-colored counters for all purposes (i.e. no multi-colored vehicles but merely the nationality color background). Having to mix 'classic' counters with multi-colored ones turns me off.

von Marwitz
 

olli

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Wouldn't it be better to use a symbol/ or 'OT' imprint for the purpose rather than to add color?

I believe that generic counters should be white to be consistent within the system.

On top of that, I prefer the 'classic' non-colored counters for all purposes (i.e. no multi-colored vehicles but merely the nationality color background). Having to mix 'classic' counters with multi-colored ones turns me off.

von Marwitz
I am with you on the National colour per counter and the thought of a coloured train on a white counter is even worse than a generic white counter. Prime reason is how would you delineate the covered wagons to open top ones. On a basic white info counter for example how would open top he shown ???
 

Tooz

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Here is a photo from Mark Drake showing a train in ASL
I have all of the books on Armored trains in English (as far as I know) and worry that "chrome" is a must if accuracy and playability are key in porting train rules to ASL. A lot to digest and consider. This project has been in development for at least sixteen years so I am assured that once done, it will be as well designed as possible. Devil in the details sort of thing.
 

sswann

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Please remember that complete OBs of trains for every nationality will not be published.
While I have quite a few scenarios of military trains in combat, the future number of scenarios will be limited.
Printing counters just to be printing counters is a waste of resources and money; both to produce and to purchase.
Example, A Passenger or Boxcar Car is functionality the same for all nations. But the Repel car (modified Flatcar) was unique to the German military.
So printing Passenger cars in 6 different national colors is a waste.

How about using a brown color for RR cars that are usable to all nations, and two-tone counters for RR cars that are specific to that nation? (Or some other Neutral Color for the edging?)
German Repel Car would be in German Blue with Brown edges. This would allow Brown Concealment counters to be used for all train RR Cars when appropriate.

16105 16106
 

von Marwitz

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How about using a brown color for RR cars that are usable to all nations, and two-tone counters for RR cars that are specific to that nation? (Or some other Neutral Color for the edging?)
Well, brown ain't a neutral color... ;)
In the above example I would 'see' a Chinese RR car and a Russian one. IMHO if a color is used for the edging in the portrayed way, then any nationality color should not to be used to avoid confusion.

This would leave white for the edging and white for cars usable to all nations.

I would not worry too much about the color of concealment counters. In practice, there won't be so many trains around that the nationality might get confused. So I would either them (no matter if the RR cars are white or white edged with nationality color center) with a concealment counter of the possessing nationality, just as you would do with a bulldozer for example. If you think that a special concealment color matching the edging of the RR car counters is neccessary, then add a couple of white concealment counters to the counter set.

von Marwitz
 

sswann

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Great idea.
I never even considered White edging with national colors.
Also, on second thought Concealment counters are not needed since a huge train would lose concealment upon LOS in any case.

I would like to hear some opinions from as many interested ASL'ers as possible.
 

Gordon

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I really like the white edging idea, otherwise I agree that color be found for the edging that is not already used for a nationality. With a list of all possible "national" colors to work from we might be able to find a decent non-white that works for all and also allows for non-nation-specific open topped cars.
 

Houlie

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Just me, but I'd vote for generic counters. I am not interested in adding armored trains for each nationality (that used them) to my kit.

I'd be one of the first to play a scenario with an armored train due to the cool/unique factor, as long as the rules are reasonably simple. The trade-off to greater complexity is less play.

Just sharing my preference. Looking forward to this!
 
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ColinJ

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You could consider doing the armored trains in the same blue as large/small rafts, assault boats and landing craft.
 

von Marwitz

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You could consider doing the armored trains in the same blue as large/small rafts, assault boats and landing craft.
Note, though, that the blue which surrounds the boats/rafts is intended to represent the water, while the depiction of the conveyance itself is 'generic white'.

von Marwitz
 
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