Armored Trains

sswann

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Gordon said:
With Steve's armored trains for the win!
Still working on it.
What is really needed?
Game oriented rules for simple game play
or
ultra detailed rules for all-season designers?

I have three sets of rules
  1. Simple single scenario rules
  2. Moderate size rules
  3. Highly detail rules for Reality.
What is the need?

Also counters?
How detailed and complete do they need to be?
Large complete train like the Destroyer ship in LFT's StN?
Individual counters so designers/players can make up their own trains?

SS
 

Gordon

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My 2 cents worth. I'd go with laying the foundation. I believe that would mean moderate sized rules that cover the basic types of situations and equipment (counters). If it is popular, additional rules and counters (chrome) can be added to address particular situations as HAT (Historical Armored Trains) extensions.
 

olli

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One counter = the engine and coal car then seperate counters for each type of carriage there are enough books out there with the actual set ups for each type of train .
 

von Marwitz

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Still working on it.
What is really needed?
Game oriented rules for simple game play
or
ultra detailed rules for all-season designers?

I have three sets of rules
  1. Simple single scenario rules
  2. Moderate size rules
  3. Highly detail rules for Reality.
What is the need?

Also counters?
How detailed and complete do they need to be?
Large complete train like the Destroyer ship in LFT's StN?
Individual counters so designers/players can make up their own trains?

SS
As so often - it depends.

If Armored Trains / Cars (whatever) feature in a single scenario, go for simple, single rules that can deal with the gear in the form of SSR.

In general, moderate size rules should be the choice.
When I am looking at a scenario which looks promising but features Panjis, I carefully weigh if the time needed to go through the Panji-rules is worth the added excitement they generate for a scenario. The balance might be negative... These kind of rules should be avoided.

For CGs in which they play a role or some very large scale scenario which regularly come with more 'chrome', you might give it to the players. Otherwise, better abstain from making things too complicated.

As for counters:

Yes, seems to make sense to me. There is not much attraction to armored trains or trains in general if they can't move (blow the bridge, unload stuff 'just in time', have the train pass securely, ambush the train, withstand air attack)

Some counters might be generic, like improvised armored cars, a flatcar with sandbags to protect the engine from mines, an 'unarmored' and 'armored' engine (maybe a single counter with an armored/unarmored side. Similar handling like the bulldozers).

Add to that (as need be for particular products) specific counters of historical armored trains/cars. Maybe very few of these can be added to the 'basic' rules.

To create entire trains, probably, I'd make these partly generic. One has to keep in mind, that armored trains usually were not that long but one hex in ASL is the equivalent of 40 meters across.

So one introduce a stacking limit for cars/engines per hex (1 or 2, max 3), that could consist of a combination of specific counters or generic ones with cargo (vehilces, personnel, AA-assets - these would/could be in 'regular' counter-form).

von Marwitz
 

Tooz

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Still working on it.
What is really needed?
Game oriented rules for simple game play
or
ultra detailed rules for all-season designers?

I have three sets of rules
  1. Simple single scenario rules
  2. Moderate size rules
  3. Highly detail rules for Reality.
What is the need?

Also counters?
How detailed and complete do they need to be?
Large complete train like the Destroyer ship in LFT's StN?
Individual counters so designers/players can make up their own trains?

SS
I'll vote for #3. Details will be needed to make this playable, in my opinion.
 

Michael Dorosh

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One counter = the engine and coal car then seperate counters for each type of carriage there are enough books out there with the actual set ups for each type of train .
Modern passenger cars are 25 metres long. Wartime boxcars used to transport interned persons were 8 or 9 metres in length. I would expect flatcars set up to carry troops and weapons were somewhere in between, so 2 or 3 cars per hex. One counter would be sufficient to group these cars since they are attached to each other.

 

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Bill Mauldin cartoon in 1944: "They should have had some of the hommes clean up after those Chevaux."
 

Eagle4ty

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Most of the scenarios I have seen involving trains, the trains were stationary. As a matter of fact I doubt one could design a reasonable scenario that included an In-Motion train that the train would play an important factor save an HASL. Therefore Even a train-rail-line overlay(s) may suffice for most scenarios.
 

Gordon

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Most of the scenarios I have seen involving trains, the trains were stationary. As a matter of fact I doubt one could design a reasonable scenario that included an In-Motion train that the train would play an important factor save an HASL. Therefore Even a train-rail-line overlay(s) may suffice for most scenarios.
But then I couldn't use my wooden train whistle and make "chugging" sounds.
 

footsteps

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But then I couldn't use my wooden train whistle and make "chugging" sounds.
To make up for that, every time a Gun on the train fires, first say: Woo-oo WOO-oo chugga chugga BOOM!!!
 
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von Marwitz

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Most of the scenarios I have seen involving trains, the trains were stationary. As a matter of fact I doubt one could design a reasonable scenario that included an In-Motion train that the train would play an important factor save an HASL.
An Ambush on a moving train by partisans and the counterattack by the units embarked on that train?

As far as I know, the Germans had some armored trains with cars that were equipped with special ramps for the quick unloading of Pz38 tanks in response to partisan activity behind the lines. Maybe a scenario is thinkable that would allow the Germans to unload units/tanks in one place of the playing area and to move on with the train to another in an effort to cut off retreat paths for partisans.

von Marwitz
 

thedrake

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#3 with individual counters,based on train cars used historically,and can be used to create own trains.
 

Robin Reeve

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A moving train can take hundreds of meters to stop.
I doubt that many partisans ambushed moving trains in a Western's way.
They blew up the rails to wreck the train and sow chaos in the enemy logistics.
Most of the time, trains were protected by soldiers and resistance guys avoided direct confrontation.
But there still may have been situations looking like a good Western movie, and ASL is a good movie simulation, as we all know. ??
 

Actionjick

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Glad you brought up the point about moving trains and the distance required for them to stop as I had been considering that. I've had a passing interest in armored trains but for ASL they just seem to be chrome taken to another level.

You would need a board setup similar to The Road to Wiltz or longer to use a train in a manner they were actually employed in. Don't get me wrong sounds intriguing but I'm not sure if it is worth the effort.

Had a DVD years ago that explained the correct way to blow up the tracks. Very informative.

Just dug out the DVD, entitled: War Trains, exciting railroad action. IIRC I was rather disappointed with it as very little about armored trains.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Glad you brought up the point about moving trains and the distance required for them to stop as I had been considering that. I've had a passing interest in armored trains but for ASL they just seem to be chrome taken to another level.

You would need a board setup similar to The Road to Wiltz or longer to use a train in a manner they were actually employed in.
Remember what Scotty said in the Star Trek reboot - "Imagine that! It never occurred to me to think of SPACE as the thing that was moving!"

So to simulate a moving train, you just SSR the the train is in perpetual motion, and have all the terrain and units move in relation to it. Each Rph for the player who owns the train, all counters and terrain moves "x" number of hexes in the direction opposite the direction the train is travelling. Thus the train remains in the middle of the map, and the other units move in relation to it.

I'm sure you could fit such an SSR onto one card....
 
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