Armored Assault - ROF

Larry

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A vehicle and infantry in armored assault move into a shellhole. For an unknowable reason, the infantry expend two MF to enter the shellhole. The AFV spends one MP to enter the location. A mortar fires and retains rate. The mortar fires again at the second MF.

Is the vehicle immune because it did not spend two MP to enter the location?
 

Binchois

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Oddly, the vehicle is immune to the second shot. There is already a Q&A on this (though in reverse):

Q. A8.3 & D9.31 While Armored Assaulting, an AFV spends three MP to enter a hex but the Infantry spends only one. Having First Fired once, may an enemy unit fire again at the same moving stack?​

A. Yes, but the second shot could only affect the AFV. [J1; Mw]​
 

ColinJ

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That is really odd since they are moving as a combined stack per D9.31. Defensive First Fire goes by MF/MP only versus unit/stack. The or of and/or in this case is important.

Does this Q&A generalize to MF for weapon recovery, smoke grenades, and other actions by units moving as a stack, but perhaps only one unit in the stack expends additional MF? This would make the MMC in these cases more vulnerable than the accompanying leader. Does the combines stack for infantry work in a different fashion, i.e., if an MMC and a leader are moving as a stack and the MMC expends 1MF for SW recovery (and the leader doesn't simultaneously expend 1MF), does the MMC split from the leader at that point? Or can they continue moving as a stack, including the leader bonus after the recovery attempt?
 

jrv

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That is really odd since they are moving as a combined stack per D9.31. Defensive First Fire goes by MF/MP only versus unit/stack. The or of and/or in this case is important.

Does this Q&A generalize to MF for weapon recovery, smoke grenades, and other actions by units moving as a stack, but perhaps only one unit in the stack expends additional MF? This would make the MMC in these cases more vulnerable than the accompanying leader. Does the combines stack for infantry work in a different fashion, i.e., if an MMC and a leader are moving as a stack and the MMC expends 1MF for SW recovery (and the leader doesn't simultaneously expend 1MF), does the MMC split from the leader at that point? Or can they continue moving as a stack, including the leader bonus after the recovery attempt?
When moving together as a stack, all infantry must spend MF together even if not performing an action. A leader accompanying a MMC that spends a MF for some action (throw smoke grenades, recovery, etc) spends the same MF even if it does not perform an action. This also applies when multiple units are spending MP together (Platoon Movement), e.g. if one vehicle in a platoon fires a sD but the other does not, both vehicles spend one MP. These principles apply whether or not the units are also moving jointly with other units that use a different kind of movement.

In contrast, when units that spend MF & MP move as a stack they can spend MF or MP independently. MP expenditures do not require corresponding MF expenditures and vice versa. A vehicle can spend one MP to start while accompanying Infantry spend zero MF, and Infantry can spend one MF to throw a smoke grenade while the vehicle spends nothing. In these cases some units may be vulnerable to DFF and others not.

JR
 

Paul M. Weir

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D9.31 only specifies that they move together and that the AFV can move no further than it could move with the Infantry (eg if Infantry Breaks/pins the AFV can move no more than 4/6/? MF worth total). It says nothing about the AFV having to pay the same MP as the Infantry expends in MF or visa versa, unlike Platoon Movement. The Infantry could recover a SW and that will reduce the distance the AFV can go, but only because it reduces the distance the Infantry can go. The reverse is also true, a slow AFV could enter a hex with its Infantry, stop, delay 1, fire and start for 5 MP while the Infantry pays 1 MF and the AFV could run out of MP while the Infantry has a MF left in the next hex, forcing the stack to halt in that next hex.

So by that, the AFV can only take 1 hit to the Infantry's 2 in the OP's example.
 

ColinJ

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Figured as much, as that is how I've been playing it. Had the thought that our group of players got something wrong long ago and inertia took over.
 

Eagle4ty

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D9.31 only specifies that they move together and that the AFV can move no further than it could move with the Infantry (eg if Infantry Breaks/pins the AFV can move no more than 4/6/? MF worth total). It says nothing about the AFV having to pay the same MP as the Infantry expends in MF or visa versa, unlike Platoon Movement. The Infantry could recover a SW and that will reduce the distance the AFV can go, but only because it reduces the distance the Infantry can go. The reverse is also true, a slow AFV could enter a hex with its Infantry, stop, delay 1, fire and start for 5 MP while the Infantry pays 1 MF and the AFV could run out of MP while the Infantry has a MF left in the next hex, forcing the stack to halt in that next hex.

So by that, the AFV can only take 1 hit to the Infantry's 2 in the OP's example.
Much better to wait until the AFV has entered its last hex as it must expend all remaining MP to enter there unless the player makes you aware of the amount of MPs expended in each hex entered as well. In the case of the OPs situation I would have no problem asking how many MPs the AFV spent entering the hex with the infantry going into the shellholes (best to do it prior to firing DF).
 

Magpie

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I should think you'd be calling out MP expended as you go as a matter of course.

Clearly, a tactical choice to be made as to whether the AFV spends 1MP for every 1MF or 1/4 (1/6) of it's total MP
 
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