Armored Assault : How far away from Infantry

Philippe R

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D9.31 states that "that AFV cannot move farther than if it were accompanied by that same Infantry throughout the move...". How does one compute that ?
After splitting from a non-CX Infantry, shall the AFV assume that the unit will not go CX?
Shall the Infantry move first and declare late CX to grant the AFV an additional hex ? (even after the splitting ?)
Can the AFV move first assuming the Infantry could go CX, even if the Infantry doesn't get CX afterwards ?
All questions for the same subjet: how does the AFV know how far the Infantry can go ?
 

EagleIV

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The tank crew knows that the infantry can spend up to 8 (or in a few specific cases more) MF and can move accordingly. Late CX is usually possible so the tank can assume that the infantry could use it even if they aren't there any more. It doesn't matter if the Infantry split off and finish moving first or second, or if they broke along the way.

In one example if there is a squad with 5PP, then the Infantry have only 2MF and late CX is not possible.
In another case a squad and leader declare CX at the start and have 8MF even if they brake in the first hex, the tank can continue based on 8MF.
In a third case a squad starts (without going CX) with the tanks and after 2 MF splits off to enter woods at 2MF. The tank can continue, assume the squad did late CX and move based on 3MF even though the squad finished without going CX.
 

klasmalmstrom

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In a third case a squad starts (without going CX) with the tanks and after 2 MF splits off to enter woods at 2MF. The tank can continue, assume the squad did late CX and move based on 3MF even though the squad finished without going CX.
The Infantry actually has to declare CX in order for the tank to benefit - not merely have the ability to do so.

D9.31 example:
"...Had the squad been Double Timing or accompanied by a leader so that it had six MF at the Start of its MPh, the Tiger could continue on into R1 and R0 which it may have reached had the Infantry continued with it. Similarly, had the squad declared Double Time upon entering the building to gain one extra MF, the Tiger could get to R1 but no farther."
 

Mister T

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An interesting case arises in the infantry is moving along a road and start AA with an AFV. Can the AFV assume that the infantry would have gotten road bonus?
 

Robin Reeve

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An interesting case arises in the infantry is moving along a road and start AA with an AFV. Can the AFV assume that the infantry would have gotten road bonus?
A would it have to keep on moving along the road to take it into account?
 

Brian W

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Yes, if the infantry had announced road MF while it was still with the AFV.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Yes, if the infantry had announced road MF while it was still with the AFV.
I agree - even though rule B3.4 only says "...which cross only road hexsides throughout their MPh..." - I've always interpreted this to include "and using the road to move".
 

Mister T

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Yes, if the infantry had announced road MF while it was still with the AFV.
See D9.5 "...even if the infantry fails to end its MPh in the same hex with the AFV".

So one can see this as giving to the AFV a range equal to the number of hexes the infantry could have potentially reached. Hence the question: can road bonus be a potentially candidate for giving the AFV one more extra hex? (Assuming AA on a road again, if the infantry is prematurely broken).
 

von Marwitz

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See D9.5 "...even if the infantry fails to end its MPh in the same hex with the AFV".

So one can see this as giving to the AFV a range equal to the number of hexes the infantry could have potentially reached. Hence the question: can road bonus be a potentially candidate for giving the AFV one more extra hex? (Assuming AA on a road again, if the infantry is prematurely broken).
"B3.4 Infantry may cross any road hexside at a cost of one MF (two MF if move is to higher elevation). Infantry, Cavalry, and Horse-Drawn units which cross only road hexsides throughout their MPh are entitled to one extra MF provided they do not encounter mines, burning wrecks, Wire, mud, rubble, roadblocks, debris (O1.2), Panji Covered hexsides, SMOKE, or Deep Snow in those road hexes and are not pushing Guns (C10.3)."

Looking at the wording of the rule I believe the answer is 'yes' if the unit is prematurely broken while moving along a road and 'no' if it started on a road but left it anytime during its MPh. In the first case, it crossed only road-hexsides, in the latter it did not.

In case it would move along a woods-road but wanted to move through the non-road portion of the hex(es) I tend to go with Klas interpretation that in such a situation the road bonus would be NA, i.e. you have to move on the road to get the benefit.

von Marwitz
 

Mister T

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Hence my answer, yes.
Should the AFV stay on the road to get his extra hex or can it drive cross-country? (again assuming the infantry broke earlier and used only the road before it broke)
 

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Should the AFV stay on the road to get his extra hex or can it drive cross-country? (again assuming the infantry broke earlier and used only the road before it broke)
As best I understand the potential ability of the infantry to enter the hex if they had not split off determines whether the AVF may enter it. If an AFV splits with the infantry after three MF facing two hexes, one of which costs one MF and the other two, the AFV may enter one but not the other. If the Infantry and the AFV split after spending four MF facing two hexes, one which the infantry could use road bonus to enter and the other which the infantry could not use road bonus to enter, the AFV may enter the first but not the second hex. All assuming the Infantry has four MF and does not increase its MF allotment by Double Time, etc. The ability of the Infantry to enter is based on its current state, or if something happens to it (e.g. pin, break, elimination), its state at that time.

JR
 
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jrv

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Should the AFV stay on the road to get his extra hex or can it drive cross-country? (again assuming the infantry broke earlier and used only the road before it broke)
If you want to make the problem hard, consider the case where a green squad, a regular squad and a leader are all moving with the AFV. After spending two MF, the stack splits with the green squad moving into one hex, the regular into another and the leader into a third. How far may the AFV move?

JR
 

Mister T

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If you want to make the problem hard, consider the case where a green squad, a regular squad and a leader are all moving with the AFV. After spending two MF, the stack splits with the green squad moving into one hex, the regular into another and the leader into a third. How far may the AFV move?
JR
He he :thumbsup:
 

Brian W

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And then the green squad BHs to a 2nd line and then the leader goes berserk!
 

Philippe R

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If you want to make the problem hard, consider the case where a green squad, a regular squad and a leader are all moving with the AFV. After spending two MF, the stack splits with the green squad moving into one hex, the regular into another and the leader into a third. How far may the AFV move?
Basically, I would play it that way: "the AFV cannot go farther than the latest Infantry Unit he moved with.."
That would be consist with the exemple D9.31 which states that the AFV gets one additional MF when the Infantry claims a late CX to enter the building. I understand that if the Infantry left ArAs without claiming late CX, or if the AFV moves alone before the Infantry, the AFV assumes it has 4 MF/range equivalent.
In the above case, if the AFV remains alone with the Green Squad, it get only 3MF/Range. If the leader stays in AA, it gets 6...
I don't see any rules clarifying that, so let's kept it simple for the sake of playbility...
 
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cwillmer

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If you want to make the problem hard, consider the case where a green squad, a regular squad and a leader are all moving with the AFV. After spending two MF, the stack splits with the green squad moving into one hex, the regular into another and the leader into a third. How far may the AFV move?

JR
Sounds like the old math problem ... If a train left Chicago at ......
 

Binchois

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If you want to make the problem hard, consider the case where a green squad, a regular squad and a leader are all moving with the AFV. After spending two MF, the stack splits with the green squad moving into one hex, the regular into another and the leader into a third. How far may the AFV move?

JR
Basically, I would play it that way: "the AFV cannot go farther than the latest Infantry Unit he moved with.."
That would be consist with the exemple D9.31 which states that the AFV gets one additional MF when the Infantry claims a late CX to enter the building. I understand that if the Infantry left ArAs without claiming late CX, or if the AFV moves alone before the Infantry, the AFV assumes it has 4 MF/range equivalent.
In the above case, if the AFV remains alone with the Green Squad, it get only 3MF/Range. If the leader stays in AA, it gets 6...
I don't see any rules clarifying that, so let's kept it simple for the sake of playbility...
Actually, JRs math problem shouldn't be hard by the letter of the rule:

D9.31 ...If Infantry move in a stack with the AFV, that AFV cannot move farther than if it were accompanied by that same Infantry throughout the move -- even if that Infantry fails to end its MPh in the same hex with the AFV.​

In other words, the AFV can travel no further than the slowest unit in the stack, as the AFV is required to move no further than that entire stack could have.

I think the main thing with AA is to imagine that the Infantry which begin moving with the AFV remain with the vehicle throughout the MPh. It is the Infantry's expenditure (or hypothetical expenditure) of MF that dictate how far the AFV can go - regardless of how many MPs it takes the AFV to get there.

For example, moving just one hex into OG might take a normal HS 1MF while the AFV may need several MP to get there (to start, to change VCA, then to move). But regardless of MPs spent so far, the vehicle can only travel 3 MFs worth of MPs further (before considering double-time, road bonus, etc.)...
 
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Larry

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The stack containing the green MMC has the same movement capacity as the non-green MMC and the leader. They get 6. When the stack bursts, the green may revert back to 3 MF ... but if it spent its entire MPh with the leader and then they got divorced, still 6. The leader could continue to AA with the AFV. The fact that some of the stack peeled off should not change that reduced stack's movement choice.
 
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