Armored Assault, HIP and WA

Cult.44

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Situation: I've got a HIP Japanese squad in an orchard hex behind a wall. My opponent enters the hex over the wall with a squad, leader and a tank using armored assault. This is how we played it:

-- My opponent's squad and leader are bumped but the tank enters the hex.
-- My formerly HIP squad fires at the CE tank and gets a stun result. The tank has spent two MP entering the hex so my squad makes a CC reaction attack as subsequent first fire. Its CCV is reduced to 4 because of SFF, but I get a -1 DRM for Immobilized vehicle and another -1 for no usable machine gun. I roll a 5 and get the kill.
-- My squad retains wall advantage to the enemy squad that was bumped. (True?)

We were thinking that my squad might lose WA but we couldn't find anything explicit in the rules.
 

jrv

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The squad has mandatory WA but it also has a non-hidden, non-prisoner enemy unit (the tank) in its Location, so it loses that WA. The non-Japanese squad and leader may or must claim WA. i'm guessing "must", but that depends on the terrain they are in.

JR
 

Steed

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The squad has mandatory WA but it also has a non-hidden, non-prisoner enemy unit (the tank) in its Location, so it loses that WA. The non-Japanese squad and leader may or must claim WA. i'm guessing "must", but that depends on the terrain they are in.

JR
But isn't the tank a wreck now, it's been killed. So that would change the fact about the non-hidden, non-prisoner enemy unit. In that case they would have WA right (the Japanese)
 

jrv

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But isn't the tank a wreck now, it's been killed. So that would change the fact about the non-hidden, non-prisoner enemy unit. In that case they would have WA right (the Japanese)
It is a wreck after DFF. The events are as follows: 1) tank enters, 2) the Japanese squad loses HIP when it bounces the enemy infantry out; ordinarily it could (must in this case) grab wall advantage when it comes out of HIP, but because there is a tank in its location it cannot, 3) the enemy infantry probably must take mandatory WA, which the Japanese squad cannot prevent due to the tank, 4) the Japanese squad now DFFs on the CE tank then kills it with CC-RF. At that point it no longer has an enemy unit in its location, but it can't seize WA back.

JR
 

Cult.44

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Thanks, JRV. Yes, the enemy squad was coming from an open-ground/road hex so would have had to take mandatory WA once the Japanese squad lost it.
 

klasmalmstrom

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If the opponent's squad and tank were in a hex that required them claiming Mandatory WA, they actually took WA as soon as they moved in there and you didn't drop HIP to deny them that.

B9.324 (with errata):
"...A HIP unit that desires to claim WA during setup must secretly record such WA status [EXC: 9.323]. A HIP unit may forfeit WA (even if it had been mandatory) to an enemy unit claiming WA (even implicitly; 9.323) over a shared hexside and remain hidden but must be placed on board (concealed) to deny an enemy unit from claiming WA, or to claim WA that is not mandatory and was not recorded, or to forfeit WA if no enemy is claiming it. Hidden units are not considered when determining if broken/unarmed units may claim WA (9.32).

Now as soon as the enemy units begin to enter the hex with the hidden Japanese unit, it loses WA, and the Japanese could claim it - though it would immeditely lose it once the tanks enters its Location (as per other posts above).
 

Eagle4ty

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Situation: I've got a HIP Japanese squad in an orchard hex behind a wall. My opponent enters the hex over the wall with a squad, leader and a tank using armored assault. This is how we played it:

-- My opponent's squad and leader are bumped but the tank enters the hex.
-- My formerly HIP squad fires at the CE tank and gets a stun result. The tank has spent two MP entering the hex so my squad makes a CC reaction attack as subsequent first fire. Its CCV is reduced to 4 because of SFF, but I get a -1 DRM for Immobilized vehicle and another -1 for no usable machine gun. I roll a 5 and get the kill.
-- My squad retains wall advantage to the enemy squad that was bumped. (True?)

We were thinking that my squad might lose WA but we couldn't find anything explicit in the rules.
Got Houlieized? Agree with others here however, if the Japanese Squad had somehow conducted CCRF (streetfighting?) vs the AFV prior to it spending the required MP to enter your hex and all you had noted above had transpired except the vehicle had been immobilized prior to hex entry, you would have retained WA & bumped the attendant infantry from entering your hex.
 

Cult.44

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Got Houlieized? Agree with others here however, if the Japanese Squad had somehow conducted CCRF (streetfighting?) vs the AFV prior to it spending the required MP to enter your hex and all you had noted above had transpired except the vehicle had been immobilized prior to hex entry, you would have retained WA & bumped the attendant infantry from entering your hex.
Yeah, I'm pretty much Houlie's whipping post. We played it wrong in letting me keep WA but it made little difference. His advancing fire shot was so bad I didn't need WA. Then in my turn the squad moved away, weathering defensive fire. Next turn, however, it folded like a tent in CC.
 

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It is a wreck after DFF. The events are as follows: 1) tank enters, 2) the Japanese squad loses HIP when it bounces the enemy infantry out; ordinarily it could (must in this case) grab wall advantage when it comes out of HIP, but because there is a tank in its location it cannot, 3) the enemy infantry probably must take mandatory WA, which the Japanese squad cannot prevent due to the tank, 4) the Japanese squad now DFFs on the CE tank then kills it with CC-RF. At that point it no longer has an enemy unit in its location, but it can't seize WA back.

JR
Thanks for the explanation.
 

jrv

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Thanks for the explanation.
As Klas explained, my explanation was wrong although the eventual result is right. In order for the Japanese squad to deny WA when the enemy entered the adjacent hex, it would have to come out of HIP. Otherwise the enemy would gain it because WA was mandatory for them as well. If WA was not mandatory for the moving units the Japanese squad could have remained HIP and retained WA, assuming the moving units did not try to claim it, and it would have played out more-or-less as I said.

JR
 

Steed

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As Klas explained, my explanation was wrong although the eventual result is right. In order for the Japanese squad to deny WA when the enemy entered the adjacent hex, it would have to come out of HIP. Otherwise the enemy would gain it because WA was mandatory for them as well. If WA was not mandatory for the moving units the Japanese squad could have remained HIP and retained WA, assuming the moving units did not try to claim it, and it would have played out more-or-less as I said.

JR
Goes to show you should read ALL the posts first, but still thanks.
 
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