Armored Assault (D9.31) with concealed Infantry using Assault Movement in Open Ground (A10.531)

[Robin Reeve]

Hi all,
Concealed Infantry is making an Armored Assault (D9.31).
As FFMO doesn't apply

Infantry moving with an AFV across otherwise Open Ground is not subject to FFMO

can one consider that it is not moving in Open Ground as per A10.531

an Open Ground hex is any hex in which the particular enemy unit(s) could apply, during a hypothetical Defensive First Fire opportunity (regardless of what attacks it actually made in previous phases), the -1 FFMO DRM

and that it thus won't loose concealment if in LOS of a Good Order enemy unit ?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If it uses non-Assault Movement it will lose "?" - otherwise not.

 

[Jazz]

Hi all,
Concealed Infantry is making an Armored Assault (D9.31).
As FFMO doesn't apply
can one consider that it is not moving in Open Ground as per A10.531

and that it thus won't loose concealment if in LOS of a Good Order enemy unit ?

From the compiled Q&A:

A12.14, A12.141 & D9.31 Does a concealed unit
using Assault Movement to Recover a SW or
Place a DC loses concealment for these activities?
Does a concealed unit combining Assault
Movement with Armored Assault to enter an
Open Ground hex lose concealment?
A. Yes, per Concealment Table Case C, assuming
the enemy satisfies the conditions for case C. No.
[Letter8]

Note that the Yes followed by a No mirrors the concealment loss behavior of a non-OG hex.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Thanks for the quick answers, which cleared my doubts.

 

[Binchois]

Out of curiosity, would a vehicle be restricted since infantry using "armored assault movement" (or any assault movement) can not expend its full MF capability. I ask this because a vehicle is allowed to expend MPs after dropping off the infantry, but only as far as the infantry could have gone as well.

For example, an MMC with 4MFs could use armored assault into OG for one MF, after which the vehicle could travel 3 further MFs worth in MPs.

However, if the MMC is using assault movement, it would not be allowed to travel more than one hex, and only up to 3 MFs (or 3.5). After the "armored assault movement" into OG, would the vehicle then only have 2.5 MFs (so to speak) left to spend?

Or would the use of assault movement mean that the vehicle, like the Infantry, can travel no further than one hex?

 

[Jazz]

I would say that the AFV can only move one hex based on the AM declaration, just like they would be able to move 6 hexes for doubletime or leadership, 5 hexes for late doubletime, 8 hexes for doubletime with a leader along, etc....

 

[jrv]

Out of curiosity, would a vehicle be restricted since infantry using "armored assault movement" (or any assault movement) can not expend its full MF capability. I ask this because a vehicle is allowed to expend MPs after dropping off the infantry, but only as far as the infantry could have gone as well.

For example, an MMC with 4MFs could use armored assault into OG for one MF, after which the vehicle could travel 3 further MFs worth in MPs.

However, if the MMC is using assault movement, it would not be allowed to travel more than one hex, and only up to 3 MFs (or 3.5). After the "armored assault movement" into OG, would the vehicle then only have 2.5 MFs (so to speak) left to spend?

Or would the use of assault movement mean that the vehicle, like the Infantry, can travel no further than one hex?

The vehicle may spend as many MP as it desires, and in fact in most cases must expend its MP allotment (perhaps mostly in delay and/or by announcing a larger MP expenditure to enter the hex), but it can't move more than the one hex the infantry can move.

JR

 

[Binchois]

I would say that the AFV can only move one hex based on the AM declaration, just like they would be able to move 6 hexes for doubletime or leadership, 5 hexes for late doubletime, 8 hexes for doubletime with a leader along, etc....

Agreed...this seems likeliest.

 

[Jazz]

The vehicle may spend as many MP as it desires, and in fact in most cases must expend its MP allotment (perhaps mostly in delay and/or by announcing a larger MP expenditure to enter the hex), but it can't move more than the one hex the infantry can move.

JR

Of course, JR has the detail correct.