"Arguably" Missing Counters

owenedwards

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
68
Reaction score
95
Location
Durham
Country
ll
So whilst of course we joke often about the excess of counters for some vehicles - why so many Opel Blitzes, guys? and why does Hakkaa Paalle have as many tank counters in it as the Finns had total? - the "fringe cases" interest me. Basically, anything that saw combat is modelled - with maybe a few exceptions (minor, slightly weird variants, usually).

But I can think of 2-4 "Arguably" missing counters (well, one is definitely missing, by the standard set above).

Covenanter and Cavalier Cruiser Tanks: Neither served in combat (the Covenanter couldn't cope with the desert, and the Cavalier was just very temperamental), but both served in home defence - and the Covenanter would have been a very important component of any defence against Sealion in 1940 (or 1941, indeed, as extra-unlikely as a Sealion in '41 would have been). Pretty valid DYO option - and over 1500 Covenanters produced (around ~500 Cavaliers produced from 1942). 12 Cavaliers were given to Free France, though I don't know that they saw any combat.

So those lead me to the...

Covenanter Bridgelayer: Hundreds of these were converted from the original, and served in NW Europe. As valid as the Valentine or Churchill equivalents.

More interesting to many is my final subject:

Maus: I assume this is in one of those Rarities packs. The reason I include it is that Prototype V2's fate - blown up (by the Germans?) after defending the OKH's HQ at Wunsdorf - suggests it may have seen the enemy. I suppose it might have just been destroyed by evacuating Germans without seeing action, but I don't know either way.

Any other good examples?
 

Honza

The Art Of Wargames
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
13,004
Reaction score
1,614
Location
Oxfordshire
First name
Jan
Country
llCzechia
CH have created Maus counters. They came in useful for my home designed Berlin CG. Plus of course for the "Mighty Maus" scenario.
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,250
Reaction score
2,973
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
M6 GMC ( First US TD) No scenario on El Guettar can be considered accurate without some.

Also used for a minute by Marines on Bougainville and FFI in Southern France.
Forgot all about that jeep. Did not know the USMC used some. I thought some went to Tito as well but could be mis-remembering.
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,573
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
Windsor Carrier - Canadian built version of the T-16 Carrier, which is also missing from ASL. The Korea module did get the Oxford Carrier, which was similar. All three were characterized by an additional road wheel and better towing capability than the Universal Carrier.

16599
T-16
16600
Windsor
16601
Regular "Universal" Carrier
16602
Oxford Carrier
 

Eagle4ty

Forum Guru
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
5,250
Reaction score
2,973
Location
Eau Claire, Wi
Country
llUnited States
Windsor Carrier - Canadian built version of the T-16 Carrier, which is also missing from ASL. The Korea module did get the Oxford Carrier, which was similar. All three were characterized by an additional road wheel and better towing capability than the Universal Carrier.

View attachment 16599
T-16
View attachment 16600
Windsor
View attachment 16601
Regular "Universal" Carrier
View attachment 16602
Oxford Carrier
Michael,
Did they ever use the Canadian built version of the Sherman in any combat during the WW-II or Korea that you're aware of?
 

olli

Elder Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2003
Messages
7,694
Reaction score
1,189
Location
Scotland
Country
llGermany
So whilst of course we joke often about the excess of counters for some vehicles - why so many Opel Blitzes, guys? and why does Hakkaa Paalle have as many tank counters in it as the Finns had total? - the "fringe cases" interest me. Basically, anything that saw combat is modelled - with maybe a few exceptions (minor, slightly weird variants, usually).

But I can think of 2-4 "Arguably" missing counters (well, one is definitely missing, by the standard set above).

Covenanter and Cavalier Cruiser Tanks: Neither served in combat (the Covenanter couldn't cope with the desert, and the Cavalier was just very temperamental), but both served in home defence - and the Covenanter would have been a very important component of any defence against Sealion in 1940 (or 1941, indeed, as extra-unlikely as a Sealion in '41 would have been). Pretty valid DYO option - and over 1500 Covenanters produced (around ~500 Cavaliers produced from 1942). 12 Cavaliers were given to Free France, though I don't know that they saw any combat.

So those lead me to the...

Covenanter Bridgelayer: Hundreds of these were converted from the original, and served in NW Europe. As valid as the Valentine or Churchill equivalents.

More interesting to many is my final subject:

Maus: I assume this is in one of those Rarities packs. The reason I include it is that Prototype V2's fate - blown up (by the Germans?) after defending the OKH's HQ at Wunsdorf - suggests it may have seen the enemy. I suppose it might have just been destroyed by evacuating Germans without seeing action, but I don't know either way.

Any other good examples?
Had the excellent designer of a sea lion pack not died due to bad maintenance on the light aircraft he had hired we might of seen scenarios with these 2 in them , but alas till someone try’s to do it we will have to wait
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,573
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
Michael,
Did they ever use the Canadian built version of the Sherman in any combat during the WW-II or Korea that you're aware of?
The Grizzly? Yes, but not as Shermans. I think some were converted to OP tanks.
 

owenedwards

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
68
Reaction score
95
Location
Durham
Country
ll
On which note, though the Ram probably isn't relevant as a tank, its cousin the AC Sentinel is, in the event of DYO "Australian Sealion".
 

fenyan

Senior Member
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
340
Reaction score
359
Location
California
Country
llUnited States
More interesting to many is my final subject:

Maus: I assume this is in one of those Rarities packs. The reason I include it is that Prototype V2's fate - blown up (by the Germans?) after defending the OKH's HQ at Wunsdorf - suggests it may have seen the enemy. I suppose it might have just been destroyed by evacuating Germans without seeing action, but I don't know either way.

Any other good examples?
The Maus (stats and scenarios) are in Dispatches from the Bunker #46. The counter artwork (not a counter itself) should be in ASL Annual '91 (from Wargame Vault).
 

Michael Dorosh

der Spieß des Forums
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
15,573
Reaction score
2,484
Location
Calgary, AB
First name
Michael
Country
llCanada
The original SL had onboard rocket artillery pieces - the Canadian Land Mattress and the Sherman Calliope were both produced in counter form (in COD and GI respectively).

16623

16624

Yeah, I get why on-board indirect fire was removed from the system, but that Calliope had a certain - morale factor - about it.
16625

ROF = "60"
 

footsteps

Just visiting
Silver Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
6,655
Reaction score
2,052
Location
Ontario
Country
llCanada
Since I don't have my packs with me right now, I will ask if these are in the US and British packs.
The two on the left are in the Free French pack, which came out a couple of years before CdGv2, so I didn't know about MMP's plans for the French. The American pack has the M6, an the German has the Maus.
 
Reactions: PTY

Old Noob

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2020
Messages
396
Reaction score
350
Country
llUnited States
If I recall correctly, the Maus made it into of the ASL Annuals (complete with Chapter H notes).
 

owenedwards

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
68
Reaction score
95
Location
Durham
Country
ll
It's a funny thing, isn't it - there was literally one combat-capable Maus (serial V2), but it's also a fascinatingly unique tank, and quite possibly did fight the Soviets (even if at a distance - given the combat range of the gun, you can imagine it fired shells, at least).

Good to see the FF Cavalier counter, too - I can't find anything on when they were handed over or if they saw combat. (I can imagine two likely situations: given to regularised FFI troops, like the B1s, and used at e.g. Bordeaux; or given post-war, like Rams given to the Dutch.)
 

PTY

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Messages
75
Reaction score
31
Country
llUnited States
The two on the left are in the Free French pack, which came out a couple of years before CdGv2, so I didn't know about MMP's plans for the French. The American pack has the M6, an the German has the Maus.
I found them on the listing, though I haven't looked at the counters themselves yet. Trying to find the Chapter H someone was doing to add in the extra counters you added.

Looking forward to the zombie and other new counters
 
Top