Area target type/area fire & halfling of ordnance hits

[Simon62]

Hi ,

Just as we thought we were getting the hang of things a rule we have been playing for ages trips us up and questions our interpretation.

The situation is:

A buttoned up German PzIII H fires it main armament at Russian infantry units in a stone building two hexes away. the Russian stack contains a 4-4-7 and some concealed units. The German AVF chooses to fire on the area target type and already has a -1 acquired on the target hex. All Russian units are in the LOS of the firing AVF.

The final TH number was 7 and the TH DR was a 7 and we calculated the to hit as follows:

a) against the unconcealed unit + 1 buttoned up, -1 acquired, -1 2 hex range (hit - 7+1-2= 6)
b) against the concealed units + 1 buttoned up, +2 concealed, - 1 acquired (Miss 7+3-1 = 9)

Then we moved onto the results on the IFT and got ourselves completely confused By the rules C.4, C3.33 and C6.2 - is the firepower of the AVF halved on the IFT when it hits the unconcealed unit.?

If the TH die roll was 4 instead of a 7 and both concealed and unconcealed units were hit - again is the AVF IFT halved against the concealed unit as it took the +2 for being concealed on the TH table.

Finally, we then started to question whether we had applied the to Hit case K correctly as it mentions 'or area fire c.4' this is target based so does this mean that if the unconcealed unit was say pinned the target would be subject to area fire if it was firing and thus case K would be applied to the TH against it?

We have got ourselves in a complete mess here and stopped our session hoping that the guru's on here could unravel this for us

Just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water!!!!

Thanks in adavance for any insights

Regards

Simon

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The German AVF chooses to fire on the area target type and already has a -1 acquired on the target hex. All Russian units are in the LOS of the firing AVF.

The final TH number was 7 and the TH DR was a 7 and we calculated the to hit as follows:

a) against the unconcealed unit + 1 buttoned up, -1 acquired, -1 2 hex range (hit - 7+1-2= 6)
b) against the concealed units + 1 buttoned up, +2 concealed, - 1 acquired (Miss 7+3-1 = 9)

Case L - Point Blank Range does not apply when using the Area Target Type.
C6.3:
"Case L is not applicable if using the Area Target Type,"

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Then we moved onto the results on the IFT and got ourselves completely confused By the rules C.4, C3.33 and C6.2 - is the firepower of the AVF halved on the IFT when it hits the unconcealed unit.?

If the TH die roll was 4 instead of a 7 and both concealed and unconcealed units were hit - again is the AVF IFT halved against the concealed unit as it took the +2 for being concealed on the TH table.

The FP is halved vs all units (concealed or not) hit, since you are using the Area Target Type.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Finally, we then started to question whether we had applied the to Hit case K correctly as it mentions 'or area fire c.4' this is target based so does this mean that if the unconcealed unit was say pinned the target would be subject to area fire if it was firing and thus case K would be applied to the TH against it?

C.4:
"Instead, any shot affected by any provision of Area Fire caused by the target’s status uses the Case K To Hit DRM (6.2)."

The target being pinned does not affect the shot - that they are concealed does.

 

[Simon62]

Ok - so we are not clear under what circumstances does the case K modifier ‘or area fire c.4’ apply?

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Ok - so we are not clear under what circumstances does the case K modifier ‘or area fire c.4’ apply?

The target being Concealed is the most common situation.

 

[Simon62]

Yes but the TH table says vs concealed or area fire C.4 just trying to understand why this was written there must be an application otherwise why print it as it just adds confusion to my mind.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Yes but the TH table says vs concealed or area fire C.4 just trying to understand why this was written there must be an application otherwise why print it as it just adds confusion to my mind.

See the Index entry for Area Fire. Might give something.

 

[Dualnet]

If a tank choses to use Area Fire and the target is concealed infantry are the tank's FP modifires halved and halved again on the IFT.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If a tank choses to use Area Fire and the target is concealed infantry are the tank's FP modifires halved and halved again on the IFT.

You never choose Area Fire - you might choose to use the Area Target Type.

The FP when using Area Target Type is halved [EXC: Critical Hit], if the target is Concealed (i.e., Area Fire applies) then there is a +2 DRM on the To Hit DRM.

If firing on the Infantry Target Type and the target is concealed (i.e., Area Fire applies) then there is a +2 DRM on the To Hit DR, but if if the FP is not halved.

 

[Craig Benn]

The halfling of ordnance....Bilbo the bombardier!

 

[Vinnie]

Area tired and area target type ate the two most commonly confused terms. They are not the same.
Area target type has its own to hit table and halves the payload.
Area fire applies a +2 to hit but has no effect on the payload as such.
Forms of area fire include
Area Fire: A7.23, C.4 [vs AFV: A9.51] [Breach in Factory Walls: O5.331, R3.331] [Cellars: O6.4, R4.4] [Command Bunker: T6.1] [Crest Infantry firing through Non-Crest Status hexsides: B20.94] [vs Boats: E5.5-.51] [vs Dash: A4.63] [vs Fording: B21.42] [from Marsh: B16.32] [Ordnance: C.4] [Snap Shot: A8.15] [from Stream: B20.6]

 

[lightspeed]

Area fire and area target type ate the two most commonly confused terms. They are not the same.

[stuff deleted]

Exactly. It is a pity the word Area appears in both. Someone (whose name I cannot remember) once suggested
that maybe "Hex Fire" and "Area Target Type" would have been enough to differentiate the two. Alas, they were
over forty years late.

indy

 

[bendizoid]

I’ve kinda wondered about x2 or x3 area fire situations, is it an area in a area ? Can it apply twice or more ? I guess it can.

 

[MichalS]

I’ve kinda wondered about x2 or x3 area fire situations, is it an area in a area ? Can it apply twice or more ? I guess it can.

Exactly. I get the mechanical design intent (halving of FP) as well as its fictional representation (spraying bullets indiscriminately across the hex area as opposed to aiming at specific targets). However, I always found it weird to apply Area Fire multiple times. It just does not feel right. Perhaps they could have called it Dispersed Fire, Halved Volume of Fire or Scattered Fire - or some such?

 

[Stewart]

I still don't see any references to Bilbo....

 

[lt_steiner]

Bilbo IS the reason of the halfling of area fire in the first place.

 

[Kijug]

I still don't see any references to Bilbo....

The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins:

 

[bendizoid]

The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins:

By my reckoning Samwise was the greatest hobbit of them all, not even close.

 

[von Marwitz]

By my reckoning Samwise was the greatest hobbit of them all.

No great hobbits IMHO. Although 'The Lord of the Rings' are my favourite books which I have read four or five times and spent way more time on Middle Earth than on ASL, I never had a liking for the hobbits. I guess that's why, when playing pen&paper, my characters had a tendency to disrespect and to bully them around.

von Marwitz