Dr Zaius
Chief Defender of the Faith
- Joined
- May 1, 2001
- Messages
- 8,902
- Reaction score
- 408
- Location
- The Forbidden Zone
- First name
- Don
- Country
-
How many people are planning to pick up a copy?
Are you planning to get the new version of Panzerblitz once it is available from MMP?
- Thread starter Dr Zaius
- Start date
PL/PB were my first wargames and they hold a very dear place in my heart. I will more than likely pick up a copy for old times sake but ASL just has it all so I don't see myself using valuable (rare) game time on it much. However, I would be interested to see the rules and other changes. Might also serve as a "gateway" game to get friends and nephews into wargames and eventually ASL
dgk196
Recruit
From what little I've seen......
Hello,
From what little I've seen so far, no way!
As I said in another thread site, the graphics are not acceptable,
especially in this day and age of high resolution printers and graphics
programs. Others have seemed to have gotten it, picked the ball up and ran
with it, just look at some of the independant work available on the web!
I feel that the original games had some very strong design aspects, for both
the graphics and the rules.
As time went on people wanted more from the game, aspects that where not
addressed in the original design. Also, more balance related to infantry was
desireable.... well you get the idea. So, I like others probably thought any
redesign would mostly be related to additional counters (other than 1944)
and rule additions / modifications. The redesign should have allowed the
original counters and maps to be used in conjunction with any new products!
As it stands right now, you can download additional counter sets / maps and
get rule mods from chat rooms and make up a better game, than the original
and still use the original components, for free!
Others have released tactical games, they where not PB/PL/AIW, and we
have all seen how poorly they did in the market, compared to PB! I have not
seen any sample segments of the rules, something not covered in the original
game, might give us an idea of how far the PBII game has come?!
I'm really concerned, we have waited many years for the update to the
game. If this does not go over will there ever be another attempt to
get it right?! IMHO, they went down the wrong road, will they realize
it in time and get back on the right track? Time will tell!
But to sum it up,........NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES... NO!:nada:
Dennis
The general says.... that's pretty tough coming from you frank!
Reply...... I didn't ask you to ask me!
Hello,
From what little I've seen so far, no way!
As I said in another thread site, the graphics are not acceptable,
especially in this day and age of high resolution printers and graphics
programs. Others have seemed to have gotten it, picked the ball up and ran
with it, just look at some of the independant work available on the web!
I feel that the original games had some very strong design aspects, for both
the graphics and the rules.
As time went on people wanted more from the game, aspects that where not
addressed in the original design. Also, more balance related to infantry was
desireable.... well you get the idea. So, I like others probably thought any
redesign would mostly be related to additional counters (other than 1944)
and rule additions / modifications. The redesign should have allowed the
original counters and maps to be used in conjunction with any new products!
As it stands right now, you can download additional counter sets / maps and
get rule mods from chat rooms and make up a better game, than the original
and still use the original components, for free!
Others have released tactical games, they where not PB/PL/AIW, and we
have all seen how poorly they did in the market, compared to PB! I have not
seen any sample segments of the rules, something not covered in the original
game, might give us an idea of how far the PBII game has come?!
I'm really concerned, we have waited many years for the update to the
game. If this does not go over will there ever be another attempt to
get it right?! IMHO, they went down the wrong road, will they realize
it in time and get back on the right track? Time will tell!
But to sum it up,........NO, NO, A THOUSAND TIMES... NO!:nada:
Dennis
The general says.... that's pretty tough coming from you frank!
Reply...... I didn't ask you to ask me!
Well, I'm not quite as emphatic as dgk196 was, but I looked over the Imaginative Strategist site yesterday http://www.imaginative-strategist.layfigures.com/index.html and a person need only take 5 seconds looking around to realise they have an utterly awesome sum of downloadable options there. Took me 2 solid hours of file downloads on broadband to gather em up (major league thanks to the creators too).
If all MMP will be able to deliver, is a rehash of the basic original, with more or less equal (I might even say less than equal at the moment until proven otherwise) graphics for the boards, and counter art that likely won't exceed what is present at the Imaginative Strategist, then I am unsure a lot will be totally impressed if in the end, what they are offered is 80 bucks (common wargame price these days used as example) for what they can already download for free.
The old rules still work as it goes. Reworled rules might be an enhancement, but I DO know that most old games manage just fine.
And that's basically it I guess. 80 bucks is a lot to ask, when a colour printer and some ordinary card stock for counters can manage the same.
What I think really needs to happen, and I am not sure it has or has not happened of course, is MMP needs to bring on board the people that did all the awesome work on that site, and let them join in on the effort. Can't see any downside there.
If the game (PB2) gets released, and all the maps from the Imaginative Strategist are snubbed and there counters not used, and entirely different ones employed in the re release, it will not only be an incredible amount of effort that never needed to be done, but would also be a sizable slap in the face to them, and might actually disgust a large portion of the fan base of the game.
I have no reason to say the above would happen, but it is not such a far stretch of the imagination either.
I'm not privy to all the work that went into the making of all the counters, or the reference/research that was involved, but I have no reason myself personally to dispute the usable nature of the work at this time.
I've been waiting a good while to get back into some PB/PL gaming now, I could wait a bit longer for a nicely done package too I suppose. But, as mentioned at the beginning of my post, I'm ALREADY in possession of a great wealth of significantly enhanced materials.
If PB/PL goes on sale, and the Imaginative Strategist gets told to cease and desist (due to copywrite issues that might arise), I will definitely be quite upset, and will NOT purchase as a means of protest at the consumer level.
If all MMP will be able to deliver, is a rehash of the basic original, with more or less equal (I might even say less than equal at the moment until proven otherwise) graphics for the boards, and counter art that likely won't exceed what is present at the Imaginative Strategist, then I am unsure a lot will be totally impressed if in the end, what they are offered is 80 bucks (common wargame price these days used as example) for what they can already download for free.
The old rules still work as it goes. Reworled rules might be an enhancement, but I DO know that most old games manage just fine.
And that's basically it I guess. 80 bucks is a lot to ask, when a colour printer and some ordinary card stock for counters can manage the same.
What I think really needs to happen, and I am not sure it has or has not happened of course, is MMP needs to bring on board the people that did all the awesome work on that site, and let them join in on the effort. Can't see any downside there.
If the game (PB2) gets released, and all the maps from the Imaginative Strategist are snubbed and there counters not used, and entirely different ones employed in the re release, it will not only be an incredible amount of effort that never needed to be done, but would also be a sizable slap in the face to them, and might actually disgust a large portion of the fan base of the game.
I have no reason to say the above would happen, but it is not such a far stretch of the imagination either.
I'm not privy to all the work that went into the making of all the counters, or the reference/research that was involved, but I have no reason myself personally to dispute the usable nature of the work at this time.
I've been waiting a good while to get back into some PB/PL gaming now, I could wait a bit longer for a nicely done package too I suppose. But, as mentioned at the beginning of my post, I'm ALREADY in possession of a great wealth of significantly enhanced materials.
If PB/PL goes on sale, and the Imaginative Strategist gets told to cease and desist (due to copywrite issues that might arise), I will definitely be quite upset, and will NOT purchase as a means of protest at the consumer level.
Double Deuce
Forum Conscript
I really like the look of the old style counters and how "Imaginative Strategist" has used them for him mods and would hate to see that format moved away from. I do have to confess though, I think that the newer looking "board style" is much better than the older ones.
I'd be curious to hear some more from MMP on this games progress. Personally, I'd like to see it follow a similar route as ASL in that the new game is different BUT you can still use the older boards and counters with the new version. Well except for taking 10 years to get each new module out . . . :stirthepot:
I'd be curious to hear some more from MMP on this games progress. Personally, I'd like to see it follow a similar route as ASL in that the new game is different BUT you can still use the older boards and counters with the new version. Well except for taking 10 years to get each new module out . . . :stirthepot:
I've been lead to this discussion via my site meter, and while I appreciate the praise very much, I want to make something clear.
The work on Imaginative Strategist has nothing whatever to do with PB II; it is expressly there to preserve the old, classic version of the game. It reflects, primarily, the work of Alan Arvold as published in the Boardgamer magazine.
The artwork as such is the work of one man, myself. I am a little stunned at the amount I was able to produce over the past year or so, but it was primarily done so my gaming buddy and I could revisit the old game with the new scenarios and counters Mr. Arvold has added.
If you go to the "Panzer Class" page all this will become clear (I hope).
MMP is a hardworking outfit with a lot of credit in the gaming community and it pains me to see them compared with my work and found wanting. They are trying something new and deserve to be commended and supported.
Also, note that although the pdfs are "free" it costs time, money, energy, and a lot more time to make the stuff -- something I enjoy very much, btw, but for many people, making it themselves is not an option.
So, again, thanks very kindly for the praise. The original PB is a classic and deserves to survive as such, but let's not make it a "that versus this" affair; PB and PB II are two different animals; the one indebted to the other, it's true, but by no means the same.
Let's play and let play.
The work on Imaginative Strategist has nothing whatever to do with PB II; it is expressly there to preserve the old, classic version of the game. It reflects, primarily, the work of Alan Arvold as published in the Boardgamer magazine.
The artwork as such is the work of one man, myself. I am a little stunned at the amount I was able to produce over the past year or so, but it was primarily done so my gaming buddy and I could revisit the old game with the new scenarios and counters Mr. Arvold has added.
If you go to the "Panzer Class" page all this will become clear (I hope).
MMP is a hardworking outfit with a lot of credit in the gaming community and it pains me to see them compared with my work and found wanting. They are trying something new and deserve to be commended and supported.
Also, note that although the pdfs are "free" it costs time, money, energy, and a lot more time to make the stuff -- something I enjoy very much, btw, but for many people, making it themselves is not an option.
So, again, thanks very kindly for the praise. The original PB is a classic and deserves to survive as such, but let's not make it a "that versus this" affair; PB and PB II are two different animals; the one indebted to the other, it's true, but by no means the same.
Let's play and let play.
Treadhead
Senior Member
I had always intended to purchase the "re-release" of PanzerBlitz. However, when I learned that the first release would actually be a historical module, I was less than happy. I was wanting and hoping for something akin to the original, in terms geomorphic boards and multiples situations.
Now that I have seen the graphic that Brian Youse released...
I shall eat some crow. I will definitely be purchasing the historical module of PanzerBlitz II, as well as the "core" module which I hope they will release with geo-boards and the nationality counters.
Regards,
Bruce Bakken
Now that I have seen the graphic that Brian Youse released...
I shall eat some crow. I will definitely be purchasing the historical module of PanzerBlitz II, as well as the "core" module which I hope they will release with geo-boards and the nationality counters.
Regards,
Bruce Bakken
The Purist
Elder Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,917
- Reaction score
- 1,481
- Location
- In my castle by the sea, Trochu, AB
- First name
- Gerry
- Country
-
After "France 1940" and "Waterloo" I immediately moved into PL and PB as a teenager waaayyy back when. With limited playing time available I will wait and see in regards to the rules and development plan. That being said,....man, this looks good. Tactical platoon movement again,....yummy.
The Purist
Elder Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2004
- Messages
- 2,917
- Reaction score
- 1,481
- Location
- In my castle by the sea, Trochu, AB
- First name
- Gerry
- Country
-
Yup,...every 3-4 years I set up the "idiots" game and try to repeat the German success. Its almost impossible to stop the allies from escaping to the south.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
- Messages
- 20,264
- Reaction score
- 6,462
- Location
- St-Légier
- First name
- Robin
- Country
-
I will buy the new PB version.
I will buy the new Up Front version.
Well, if I am not too old at the moment they are printed, as they have been promised for more than 6 years...
I will buy the new Up Front version.
Well, if I am not too old at the moment they are printed, as they have been promised for more than 6 years...
In answer to the theme of the thread... Yes.
If it's a personal preference thing, I like ImStrat's work better, because I like the simplicity of the old game. But I'm also a great fan of MMP's Historical ASL stuff, so I imagine a proper Historical PB will do it for me. For that reason, I'll pre-order it as and when it comes up. In fact, I think the HASL stuff is the absolute top of the pile, I much prefer it to standard ASL.
So, in answer to the theme of the thread, yes, I will pre-order PB2. Will I use ImStrat's work? Yes, of course I will as well, I still have PB & PL in my cupboard, and this may be the catalyst I need to get it out and start playing it again.
Congratulations to both parties for a great effort, let's hope they can live together in peace!
Cheers,
Eddy.
Frankly I'm amazed, first by MMPs efforts to bring the PB line back to life, which is excellent, and secondly by IMStrats' efforts to quite disinterestedly maintain the old PB system. I wish I'd known about ImStrat's website years ago, I'd definitely have used it. I desperately hope that MMP or Hasbro doesn't regard ImStrat's efforts as a market threat, and will allow him to continue his work.
If it's a personal preference thing, I like ImStrat's work better, because I like the simplicity of the old game. But I'm also a great fan of MMP's Historical ASL stuff, so I imagine a proper Historical PB will do it for me. For that reason, I'll pre-order it as and when it comes up. In fact, I think the HASL stuff is the absolute top of the pile, I much prefer it to standard ASL.
So, in answer to the theme of the thread, yes, I will pre-order PB2. Will I use ImStrat's work? Yes, of course I will as well, I still have PB & PL in my cupboard, and this may be the catalyst I need to get it out and start playing it again.
Congratulations to both parties for a great effort, let's hope they can live together in peace!
Cheers,
Eddy.
ddm_aka_t34c
Recruit
PB and PB II
Amen, and Amen!
Do I love the old game? Sure do.
Do I still play it? Yup.
Do I admire ImStrat and hope it goes on and on? Uh-huh.
Am I glad that MMP has decided to try to revive this classic? Yes, very.
Do I think PB II will take the world by storm the way its predesessor did back in the 'seventies? Well, no. I'm a realist and I realize that there's just too much else out there.
Will I buy it anyway? You betcha!
Hear hear!!
Amen, and Amen!
Do I love the old game? Sure do.
Do I still play it? Yup.
Do I admire ImStrat and hope it goes on and on? Uh-huh.
Am I glad that MMP has decided to try to revive this classic? Yes, very.
Do I think PB II will take the world by storm the way its predesessor did back in the 'seventies? Well, no. I'm a realist and I realize that there's just too much else out there.
Will I buy it anyway? You betcha!
soggycrow
Polish Submariner
Oh, probably. Even if only for the nostalgia aspects. I owned and played the originals and have some vague but fond memories of it. I think it was the first game with geomorphic mapboards. A revolutionary concept at the time.:blab:
Panzerblitzer
Member
Corporal Kindel
Member
Well, I preordered PBII. I hope it's a more advanced update of the original (like ASL was to SL), and not a totally different game.