Arab-Is product

[Treadhead]

I think the Arab-Israeli conflicts could be quite interesting.

I wouldn't buy it, however. That's just my personal preference regarding TPP. I have absolutely no problem with differing opinions on this issue. I'll just vote with my pocketbook.

Now, if you designed your own game system ... and created a product using your own game system based on the Arab-Israeli conflict ... I might buy it, just to have it.

When it comes to the Advanced Squad Leader game system, official ASL products are all I'll really consider, and probably more than I'll ever play during what remains of my lifetime.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[Pitman]

So Mark, I take it that means you wouldn't buy it but you don't object to other wargamers playing scenarios that interest them?

Down, boy. Opinions were solicited.

 

[Roy]

A bit off to the side here, so apologies.....

Was there actually a Sherman called the Super-Sherman, or is this actually the Sherman Jumbo?

 

[The Purist]

Sherman mounting a 105mm "low pressure" gun (excellent penetration),...my memory wants to say it was French but I'm not sure. It still rocked the Sherman quite badly but it would kill anything up to (including?) a T-62.

 

[Evan Sherry]

I would not buy an Arab-Isreali War ASL product. I have absolutely no interest in ASL outside of the 1930-1945 period. I am aware others may want a product such as this and that is fine. However, I'll pass.

Evan Sherry

 

[Gunner Scott]

Hi-


I'm all for it, it is 1948 right? Anyway, the CH! version is ok, but some aspects of it are just in the realms of fantasy IE the Israeli squads are just way to ubermench, the Mol to hit hero is over the top and so on.
I'd buy it since it kinda reminds me of early war stuff, no super tanks, just the light crap vs crap.

Scott

 

[Doughboy]

Now the introduction of ATGMs duirng the '67 war would require some careful planning indeed, but the infantry-only scenarios would play pretty much like standard ASL fare.

It would be interesting to see how ATGMs are modeled in ASL's scale. The closest system that tried to do this was AH MBT, however the movement of vehicles in that system was accomplished through a multiple impulse system whereby vehicles would move a portions of movement per impulse while the missile in contrast would move a lot. It was possible for the target to move out of view of the ATGM while in flight. Modeling this in ASL will be a challenge.

The overall positive approval for an Arab and Israeli module is curious as I was under the impression that most ASL gamers did not like the desert rules much but, then WOA is a very high demand product :cheeky:

 

[sturmovik]

Could be interresting (if better done than the Genesis by CH!) but I would very much prefer to see the coming out of KC and the SF pack

 

[Robin Reeve]

I dislike those signatures as well.

All is in the level of interpretation...
Your Avatar could be taken as a support of chemical weapons... :devil:

 

[Robin Reeve]

I don't know if I would buy it...
Something restrains me from playing post WW2 scenarios... though I saw at Degania Kibbutz the wreck of a French tank, used by the Syrians and destroyed by the Israelis (Hotchkiss or Renault? can't say)...
I believe that one should restrict ASL to the 48 war (perhaps push to the '56 crisis - Vae Victis edited a scenario happening at that time).

 

[Golani]

... though I saw at Degania Kibbutz the wreck of a French tank, used by the Syrians and destroyed by the Israelis (Hotchkiss or Renault? can't say)...

That's right, a Syrian tank (I'm not sure either if it's a R35 or an H39) that was taken out by a Molotov cocktail

 

[Achilles]

All is in the level of interpretation...
Your Avatar could be taken as a support of chemical weapons... :devil:

Don't judge by the avatars! :devious:

By the way...how is it that a pastor likes wargames? :smoke:

"Sur nos monts, quand le soleil
Annonce un brillant réveil,
Et prédit d'un plus beau jour le retour,
Les beautés de la patrie
Parlent à l'âme attendrie;
Au ciel montent plus joyeux
Les accents d'un coeur pieux,
Les accents émus d'un coeur pieux."

 

[Robin Reeve]

Don't judge by the avatars! :devious:

By the way...how is it that a pastor likes wargames? :smoke:

I was not judging.
Just showing that one can misjudge easily (there has been a small debate about the contents of the citation under Golani's posts).

Thanks for the Swiss anthem - I do see you are cultured.

Now, I am a pastor and I do like wargames.
In real life, I refused armed service - but serve my country in a Civil Protection unit (i.e. that takes people in charge in case of flood, fire or other big problems).
I am quite aware this could seem contradictory, but I am 40 years old and psychologists say that it the age of "appeased paradoxes".
When I became a christian, I stopped wargaming during about a year, to evaluate if that hobby was in conflict with my beliefs.
This led me to notice that wargames did not make me more agressive, that they did not nourrish sadistic (or masochistic!) tendencies, and finally, that a match of soccer created much more violence than "armchair warfare"... Even chess seems more (psychologically) violent, as it leaves no place for probabilities (in religious language, one could speak of "grace")...
Wargames don't modelize suffering : they put gamers in situations they have to solve. They nourrish our positive taste for adventure. They allow to meet different people, and are a excellent way of having a good time.
To anticipate another question about my other choices of life : yes, I do love drinking beer when playing - here in Switzerland, we produce beer and good wine (but I do prefer Belgian Trappist bier), and there is no "geographical religious bane" around here against drinking with moderation.
But I am sure that a Greek like you will chuckle at this last remark, sipping at your glass of ouzzo... :cheeky:

 

[Gen. blunder]

yes, I do love drinking beer when playing - here in Switzerland, we produce beer and good wine (but I do prefer Belgian Trappist bier), QUOTE]

I live in France in Alsace, we also produce good white wine Riesling, Gewurtztramminer, Edelzwicker, Pinot gris
you should try these wines someday.
Alsace is not to far from Switzerland, specially Basel.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I live in France in Alsace, we also produce good white wine Riesling, Gewurtztramminer, Edelzwicker, Pinot gris you should try these wines someday.

I have tried them more than once!
My wife happens to be Alsacian (from Volgelsheim, near Neuf-Brisach, 20 km from Colmar) : once a year we go at her parent's place and have many occasions to taste the good produces of that marvelous region.
Sauerkraut, smoked "palette" (porc), knacks, bier of mars, bretzels, Flammenkueche (more "Bas-Rhin" Strasbourg speciality, I believe) ...
Usually we are there around Easter : we could meet you and I, and push some cardboard, couldn't we?

 

[Priest]

I'd buy it.

 

[Jack Dionne]

Has to be good!

I won’t vote on the poll. I won’t be buying every little thing that comes out unless I win the lottery. I would have to see it first and talk about with the guys in our club. Good products I will buy.

 

[paulkenny]

Could be interresting (if better done than the Genesis by CH!) but I would very much prefer to see the coming out of KC and the SF pack

KC? SF?

 

[Klaus Fischer]

KC? SF?

KC = Kampfgruppen Commander
SF = Special Forces Pack

Ciao
Klaus

 

[Klaus Fischer]

ATGM in ASL

How's that for a start?

4.5 The SAGGER/DRAGON Medium Wire-Guided Anti-Tank Missiles (ATGM): These ATGM were the original replacements for the WWII era Recoilless Rifles and provide the single infantryman lethal firepower to challenge opposing armor.
...
4.5.2 Range: The Dragon has a minimum range of 2 hexes and a maximum range of 20 hexes, while the Sagger has a minimum range of 3 hexes and a maximum range of 60 hexes. Both ATGM may never fire bejond their maximum range.
4.5.3 Malfunction: On a Original TH DR =>11 the ATGM malfunctions and is removed from play. On a Original TH DR of 12 the ATGM explodes and attacks the firing unit with a 2FP IFT attack, using the hex TEM as negative IFT DRM [EXC: If vehicular mounted the ATGM malfunctions].
4.5.4 To Hit: The Dragon/Sagger can only be fired in the PFPh and the D(f)FPh [EXC: If marked for Opportunity Fire]. The ATGM uses its own TH Table, printed on its reverse side. The TH DRM J, J1, J2 and A do not apply.

To simulate the actual traveling (tracking) of the missile, the TK DR is delayed as follows:

4.5.41 During the PFPh the ATGM is fired as a normal SW, but after the TH DR all units currently in LOS and not marked with a First/Final Fire marker may attempt to supress (Pin, Break or Kill) the firing squad by using a form of early Defensive First Fire. If, after such fire, the firing unit is still in Good Order the TK DR is resolved. All units that fired at the ATGM firer are marked with a Final Fire marker.
*4.5.42 During the D(f)FPh the firer declares its target as it moves and both players check LOS of the firer to the target, to ensure that he was able to track the target for 2 hexes. If the firer was unable to do so, the missile is lost. If the firer was able to track the target for at least 2 hexes, the TH DR is resolved. Once a Hit is scored the target may use Bounding First Fire to supress the firer (and is marked with a Bounding Fire marker). If the firer survived the targets Bounding First Fire in Good Order, the TK DR is resolved.
4.5.43 During the DFPh the firer declares its target and if the target is Moving/In Motion, checks for tracking LOS. If tracking LOS is given, the TH DR is resolved. After the TH DR all units marked with Opportunity Fire and the target itself may attempt to supress the firer using early Advancing/Bounding Fire. If the firer is after such fire still in Good Order the TK DR is resolved.
4.5.44 During the AFPh the ATGM may only be fired as Opportunity Fire and 4.541 applies.
4.5.45 Supressed Firer: If a firing unit is supressed due to a Pin, Break or Kill result the ATGM is lost and no TK DR is resolved.

4.5.5 vs. Infantry: If a Dragon/Sagger is used against Infantry a hit must be secured. It then attacks with 4 IFT FP and the TEM of the taget Location applies as negative IFT DRM.

*4.5.6 Leadership: Two SMC can use a ATGM at full effect provided they neither operate nor direct any other form of fire during that player turn. Otherwise a leader may add his leadership modifier to the TH DR.

*4.5.7 Restricions: A Dragon/Sagger may never be fired from a building/bunker/pillbox Location.

and for the heavier ATGM (like TOW) there's a "Tracking Requirement"

4.6.5 To Hit: When fired the ATGM-H uses the TOW TH Table. If used against a Moving/In Motion Vehicle the firer declares the target and both players check the firers tracking LOS according to the following chart:
Range to Target Tracking LOS

2-20 1 hex

21-40 2 hexes

41-60 3 hexes

61-75 4 hexes


If the firer was unable to track the target at all times the missile is lost ( a TH DR is still resolved for breakdown purposes).

If the firer was able to track the target a TH DR is resolved and all units currently in LOS and not marked with a Prep/First or Final Fire marker may attempt to supress the firing unit (4.545). If the firing unit is in Good Order after all supressive fire the TK DR is resolved.

Just to get you started
on ATGM, not Arab-Israeli Wars

Klaus