AOO & ASLRB Update

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PZchala

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ASLRB 2nd edition reprint is great news, and just what is needed to follow up on the success of ASLSK. Am I correct in thinking that one will still need all the 2nd edition erratta that has been issued since the original release of ASLRB 2, to be up-to-date?

Nice to see the effort to include chapter K. K has gotten a lot of bashing over the years, but my first ASL purchase was the ASLRB and PT, and K was the first thing I read. I found it fun and it got me up to ASL speed pretty quick.

I also bought UPF on the same purchase. ASLRB, PT, and UPF...single best wargaming shopping day in my history!
 

Gunner Scott

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talk talk talk

I really dont understand, MMP is saying one thing IE they are going to press with the ASLRB and working hard on AoO then saying another that the Gamers stuff gets priority thus any work on ASL gets dropped.
I understand how everybody pity's and feel's sorry for MMP, but who is their biggest customer base? ASL'ers Or Gamers? I know MMP has a comimitment to Gamers fans, but how about showing just a little committment to your ASL fans. I mean, its been a year since anything new has come out ya know.


Scott
 

KG_Kharkov

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I too find myself asking the same questions. I realize that they have different teams of people producing the Gamers' line of games, but isn't MMP first and foremost about ASL -- maybe that is no longer the case, but that's why I thought they got into the business in the first place. Many of us have been waiting for years for AOO, and even worse, many of us have been told time and again that it would be released shortly. Heck I remember calling MMP this time last year and asking when it was likely to ship and the reply was first quarter 04 (and this was after the Christmas 03 deadline was missed).

People will say that you already have tons of stuff that you haven't played, but that's really not the point -- keeping people interested in a product line requires the product line to be updated on a regular basis. It's a shame when third party producers like Critical Hit and Heat of Battle produce more products in a year than the official producer of ASL.

I've played SL/ASL for about 25 years now and just don't see the hobby going anywhere -- how do you get people enthused about the game when the official producer has such delays in putting new product (plus the core rulebook) in the marketplace.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see some regular communication from MMP to keep player's interested. You can't even get the status update e-mails from the website anymore. A bi-monthly newsletter with a few jpegs of products in production, (plus clear, realistic schedules for these products) would go a long way towards keeping players enthused and interested in ASL and MMP.
 

Gunner Scott

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Dont get me wrong, I am not bashing MMP, its just that when you walk into your local game store and pass the new section of games, what do you see?

I see Darkest December, Advanced Tobruk and what not saying on the box; The ultimate Squad Level game or some such title. no ASLSK's, and most people outside this group think ASL is dead. Its not alot, but it is a scary thought. Worse, they think ATS is the new squad level game or its a new Avalon Hill game. I know it sounds stupid, but this is what I heard a few day's ago at my local games store. MMP needs to really rectify this problem ASAP.


Scott
 

Ole Boe

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byouse said:
It's going to be the same as the 2nd Edition.
I think its a shame that not at least the tables are corrected. There are numerous errors in the tables, several have official errata, but there are several more errors than those listed in J1-J5.

But this would probably delay the process for another month so... :nervous:
 

Johnny Canuck

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Ole Boe said:
I think its a shame that not at least the tables are corrected. There are numerous errors in the tables, several have official errata, but there are several more errors than those listed in J1-J5.

But this would probably delay the process for another month so... :nervous:
A month?

More likely, it would be many months delay. I (thought I) recalled hearing last year that the ASLRBv2 reprint was imminent as there weren't going to be any changes to it.

That's kind of funny in retrospect.
 

da priest

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Johnny Canuck said:
A month?

More likely, it would be many months delay. I (thought I) recalled hearing last year that the ASLRBv2 reprint was imminent as there weren't going to be any changes to it.

That's kind of funny in retrospect.
Can't remember where posted, but the details of why there was a delay was posted either here or over in ConSim. The printers updated their Quark(?) to about 3 editions beyond the original version used for ASLRBv2. This caused formatting problems, such that a page by page, line by line proof was needed, instead of the anticipated, "here's the discs, now print-it.".

This unfortunately will futz up all the modules containing Chap. H or Rules additions in the future. Wish there was a better program the printers were in love with.

Sigh, not really funny is it?
 

kdalton

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The printer for the ASLRB does not print any Gamers stuff. None. So even if the two Gamers games near preorder go over tomorrow, that's not going to affect the rulebook.

As for AOO, don't sweat the printer queue issues until we actually finish proofing the final counter sheets. Then you can sweat it. That being said, if we're able to combine Gamers and ASL counter sheet print runs, we can achieve a lower cost per unit, so you save money.
 

da priest

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KG_Kharkov said:
Many of us have been waiting for years for AOO, and even worse, many of us have been told time and again that it would be released shortly..
Well, MMP has only been around as the producer for 5 years, you going to stick them with all AH's "promises"?

Heck I remember calling MMP this time last year and asking when it was likely to ship and the reply was first quarter 04 (and this was after the Christmas 03 deadline was missed).
Interesting you call before Dec and they already missed the Dec date?
I don't remember a DEC 2003 deadline, do remember the target date of Spring '04 in one of their brochures(they should have made that one, but ASLSK got in the way:cry: ). Looks like they're going to wind up about 9 months late, about the ASLSK time.

keeping people interested in a product line requires the product line to be updated on a regular basis.
Not really, the constant draw of ASL seems to be the unchanging rules, and therefore the ability to play with tons of folks.

It's a shame when third party producers like Critical Hit and Heat of Battle produce more products in a year than the official producer of ASL.
Really don't care what CH did or does, but HOB, more per year, every year, don't really know their history do you? How many years has HOB out produced MMP anyway?

I've played SL/ASL for about 25 years now and just don't see the hobby going anywhere -- how do you get people enthused about the game
.

Missed our polls here haven't you? Number of players going up, average age decreasing slightly. And that wacky ASLSK, haven't sold any copies of that I guess.

At the end of the day, I'd like to see some regular communication from MMP to keep player's interested.
Errrr, they post here, and on ConSim regularly, ASLML sometimes, you want another website too? And note your response here was to a post of theirs keeping us up-to-date. Now if you posted an update message and got trashed for it, how many more would you post?

(plus clear, realistic schedules for these products)
To dream the impossible dream is a good thing I guess. Unless like another one around here you want these so you can bash them for being late...?(see above where you tell us you got a vague date, and then bashed them for missing it, and your post assumes that vague date wasn't their best effort to give you a realistic schedule)

Sigh, AoO is late, yep, but slamming the only reputable ASL producer who can publish it is kinda silly.

I really do want my Green Meanies now!:smoke:
 

Gunner Scott

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da priest said:
Not really, the constant draw of ASL seems to be the unchanging rules, and therefore the ability to play with tons of folks.
Hmmmm, I'd be a little leary on that statement, Oli Boe just posted that there is errata on the qrdc's in 2E ASL that I did'nt know about. The game has become way more complicated then it was years ago IE the revised Human Wave Rules 2 1/2 pages from one page, the Wall advantage/ Bocage Rules are much more complicated then ever before. Yes there alot more newer people playing, but there are alot less of the old guard playing.




da priest said:
Sigh, AoO is late, yep, but slamming the only reputable ASL producer who can publish it is kinda silly.

I really do want my Green Meanies now!:smoke:
What are you saying Ron? That all other ASL publishers are hacks? At least they are publishing ASL stuff to keep it alive unlike your hero's over at MMP who talk the talk but refuse to walk the walk let alone lead the way.

Scott
 

rdw5150

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"Well, MMP has only been around as the producer for 5 years, you going to stick them with all AH's "promises"?"

Oh come on Ron, MMP has also been promising this for years :D

Lets just hold them to THEIR promises.

Seems to me that there is something in J1 about AOO "seeing the light of day" this year or something to that effect.

I am all for giving MMP the benefit of the doubt, but I think everyone will admit, both AH and now MMP have been promising this product for some time.

Peace

Roger
 

RobZagnut

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Ron, I think the post most people are concerned about is the post made by Brian below:

>They're ready to go any time except for the boxes which i'm hoping to finish this weekend.

There has already been three The Gamers games released before AOO (Fearful Slaughter, DAK 2 and Three Battle Manassas) but Brian is finishing up boxes for two more (Bloody Ridge & The Might Endeavor) this weekend? Why isn't he spending this weekend working on AOO instead?

Personally, I would like to see ALL work by Brian and Perry suspended on The Gamers line until AOO is released. It was promised first and ASL is their cash cow, but we're not getting treated like it. Kiss off The Gamers and Dean Essig for a while. We've waited, let them wait.

I held back my opinion on what I thought would happen to us ASLers after MMP purchased The Gamers, but all indications show that we're taking a back seat to them. It sucks! I now wish they would have let The Gamers line die on the vine. I've been one of MMP staunchest supporters, but I'm getting irritated seeing all the results happening on The Gamers side and nothing happening with AOO and VoTG.
 

CPRad

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Robert Wolkey said:
There has already been three The Gamers games released before AOO (Fearful Slaughter, DAK 2 and Three Battle Manassas) but Brian is finishing up boxes for two more (Bloody Ridge & The Might Endeavor) this weekend?

Personally, I would like to see ALL work by Brian and Perry suspended on The Gamers line until AOO is released. Kiss off The Gamers and Dean Essig for a while. We've waited, let them wait.

I held back my opinion on what I thought would happen to us ASLers after MMP purchased The Gamers, but all indications show that we're taking a back seat to them. It sucks! I now wish they would have let The Gamers line die on the vine. I've been one of MMP staunchest supporters, but I'm getting irritated seeing all the results happening on The Gamers side and nothing happening with AOO and VoTG.
Hey Guy

Would it help if I said I'm one of THOSE Gamers supporters but in the last year I've not purchased any of the ABOVE mentioned Gamers titles but instead bought direct from MMP ASLSK, FKaC & OVHS.

and have on order AOO and ASLRB ... not BR or TME.....

AOO is on its way .... : )
 

Jay White

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I agree with Rob - this is ridiculous.

Especially frustrating because MMP has a monopoly on the main ASL products. In any other situation, we could vote with our wallets and buy a similar product elsewhere.

MMP doesn't have to do much to make ASL-ers happy - finish the damned AoO layout.

However, I don't think it'll be much longer before people's disappointment is irreversible.

Getting really tired of hearing Gamers news, and no ASL news.

-Jay
 

byouse

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Kiss off The Gamers and Dean Essig for a while. We've waited, let them wait.
I don't even have a response for this. Well, yes I do...

We're working on AOO, ASLRB reprint, ASLSK2, afterwhich we'll reprint BV and ASLSK1, and I have to do two boxes for two Gamers games. They all get our time, per what I told Mark P. on CSW about a month ago. We will not continue to function as an "us versus them" company with respect to our product lines.

If this "policy" costs us customers, that's a side effect we will have to live with.

Brian
 

byouse

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I am all for giving MMP the benefit of the doubt, but I think everyone will admit, both AH and now MMP have been promising this product for some time.
We also promised UP FRONT and Panzerblitz. Should we drop everything to get those out?

Happens in this industry. I remember waiting for a long time for a game called BLOOD AND SAND by Richard Berg. Game never came to be. I got over it. The pacific version of Third Reich, another game promised forever. The history of board gaming is littered wtih "we think this'll be ready on x" and it not being ready until y (if at all).

AOO will "come to be", unless I happen to die before it's produced. Nothing to "get over" as you'll be able to punch it out and play it sometime relatively soon.
 

Jay White

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I think we're just waiting to see this "policy" result in a few ASL products.

Until then, I will be bummed. After that, I will be happy.

-Jay
 

Gunner Scott

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Now thats customer relations for ya!


Scott

byouse said:
I don't even have a response for this. Well, yes I do...

We're working on AOO, ASLRB reprint, ASLSK2, afterwhich we'll reprint BV and ASLSK1, and I have to do two boxes for two Gamers games. They all get our time, per what I told Mark P. on CSW about a month ago. We will not continue to function as an "us versus them" company with respect to our product lines.

If this "policy" costs us customers, that's a side effect we will have to live with.

Brian
 

byouse

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After that, I will be happy.
Ahh, but for how long?

This really is no different than the "Dutch Trucks" cries we heard at the end of AH's days. Funny thing is now you hardly ever see people playing Allied Minor scenarios and we rarely, if ever, get AM submissions using the "Dutch Trucks" countermix. Certainly they are not played in proportion to the outcry for them, nor will AOO be played proportionally as well, I suspect.

Or maybe there is a small cult of people dying to play with odd, unreliable vehicles.
 

byouse

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Why isn't he spending this weekend working on AOO instead?
More importantly, why am I not spending my weekend with my family? That's what my wife wants to know. Fortunately, she's as anxious for AOO to come out as you guys are...
 
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