anyone else grab TDC from MMP?

kcole4001

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Back to the subject at hand, it looks like a really interesting game.

The CG variables remind me of the old C64 Operation Market-Garden game where you could play using historical drop zones, weather, German reinforcement areas, etc. or try using your own zones, random weather, or any combination of these.
It was a very simple game, hard to beat, and had HUGE replay value.

Success was measured by comparing your own results with a historical analysis, IE: you tried to beat the historical result.
A pretty fun game.

This game may be too big, or too expensive, or not customizable enough for some, but there are still some hard-core monster game fans out there, obviously.
 

Portal

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Cheers, John, I've had a blast in the LARP scene myself. :)

dude163,

Thanks for that helpful TDC campaign game info. I hope they do post a PDF of the rules somewhere so this thing can be sussed out properly, too. :)
 

jwb3

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Re: Campaign games,
Most wargames follow this fixed structure. At Start OB, specific reinforcements arriving as they did historically.
Indeed, the same is true of some HASLs; PB especially. I think this just emphasizes how unique the other HASLs are.

Most of the advanced ACW games have written orders requirements, that might or might not be accepted and followed if they are delivered. So there is spice in these games. They are not all fixed, and pre-determined.
The RSS series Gettysburg, This Hallowed Ground (or as some like to call it, "This Heavy Box"!) has the usual historically-based times and places for reinforcements to enter, but also allows an option (IIRC) for the times to be randomly modified a bit, so as to add back in some excitement and fog of war.

However, the even more interesting variant is the one where units enter at the historical time and place... but not necessarily the historical unit! When a unit is scheduled to enter, you do a random pick from the remaining available reinforcement groups to see which one you get! This is a great way of re-creating the uncertain strategic background surrounding Gettysburg; it began with a random encounter between two random small elements of the armies, and quickly ballooned as more units piled in from all directions. But there was no master plan behind which scattered forces approached the town from what directions, and on arrival they were just tossed in where they were most needed at the moment.

Now, the downside is that the terrain is still the same, and the features that Meade and Lee considered important are still important for the same (historically accurate) reasons. So even with the "random reinforcement schedule" added, there are distinct limits to just how different a playing of the full battle can be. But at least you're getting shoehorned by historical accuracy and not by a script...

Furthermore, as Brian said, the written orders and the random element to how long they will take to be implemented add a very different feel to the CG, so even if all the forces and terrain are known, the battle can still develop in unexpected ways.


I would not want a battle of Gettysburg game where I was free to buy my own OB from a list of possible units. One of the reasons it works for a HASL is because the units are all generic anyway; that 4-6-7 doesn't represent the 3rd squad of the 2nd Platoon of Battalion 3 of the 295th Infantry Division, or whatever, it just represents "a squad of rifle-armed men". I could also see doing a simillar sort of buy-your-OB campaign game for Panzer Leader, because the units are similarly generic. However, I assume (and I think someone stated) that the counters in TDC are each labeled as a historical unit, so I don't see it working well there.


John
 

bos

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Here's some pics from the VASSAL module, illustrating some counters and the reinforcement schedule for one of the divisions.

The compelling thing is the scale. It sufficiently fine for some units (Guns and Armor) to have ranges and therefore care about LOS and elevation. But, it's also coarse enough to manage to map the whole Op Area.

EDIT: Oooh, and it has black SS counters. Like the Panther tank unit in the left pic.
 
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'Ol Fezziwig

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The Gamers usual menu of variants and optionals always created enough diversity to allow many different ways to explore not only the historical event, but plausible (and not quite so...) "what ifs". For example; I played a Second Manassas CG where I bought DH Hill's division (good thing, too!) and my opponent bought VI Corps, and an additional infantry and cavalry brigade that were historically guardind the trains.

Our battle didn't follow the historical script, but was certainly a fun and tense battle raging over, what? 3 days?

You're going to run into a bit of difficulty doing this with Market-Garden, however, due to the nature of the battle itself. I won't go into the reasons as they're well known and have been more than capably explained already. The compelling nature of the strategic surprise of an SS panzer division resting and refitting in Arnhem and the audacity of trying to run a mechanised battle up a single road in difficult terrain is the main draw.

Certainly the opportunity to improve on the historical outcome-despite having the benefit of hindsight-with the forces available is one of the main draws. The ASL model just doesn't work as well at this scale, though it doesn't mean there isn't a way to add variation or randomness. I like the manner TDC adds V&R within the constraints of the history without becoming a slave to it.
 

Darrell Andersen

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It just flippin' kills me..

TDC looks REALLY good but I know damned good and well that if I buy TDC it will just sit on the shelf unplayed.

I am hostage to ASL.
 

Darrell Andersen

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"I will bring it along in a couple of weeks time just to taunt you."

You are a bastard. :)

Emailing you today for some specifics as well.
 

Darrell Andersen

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"There's always..."someday"..."

That's what I keep thinking but I never end up playing anything other than ASL. Stupid obsession. :)
 

Whizbang1963

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:surprise: But how do you reach the center of the map?!? :crosseye:


John
With great bloody difficulty...the older I get the bigger the gut gets so I almost need a croupier (sp?) to get to the center of the table
 

Rindis

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EDIT: Oooh, and it has black SS counters. Like the Panther tank unit in the left pic.
I'd say it's more of a dark gray.

What if: I believe I've seen comments on variations where the Allied player gets to choose drop zones for units. (Presumably all scheduled out before play...)

Anyway, I actually ignored this when it was up on preorder, but looking at it now, it does look quite interesting. I definitely don't have the money for it right now, but I'll probably see if I can afford No Question of Surrender. at some point.
 

Psycho

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EDIT: Oooh, and it has black SS counters. Like the Panther tank unit in the left pic.
How anybody can make a game about genocide is beyond me! :stirthepot: :bigfire: :sneak:

:D
 

Roadtogundagai

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How anybody can make a game about genocide is beyond me! :stirthepot: :bigfire: :sneak:

:D
Next you'll be complaining about machinegunning the children. Hey - they asked for it. :rifle: :hurt: :dead: :skull:
 

Portal

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Can anyone briefly explain what rules mechanics are in place for this game to create Fog of War where players don't have omniscient knowledge of exactly where his opponent's forces are located on the map at any point in time?
 
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