Any OVHS CG AARs out there?

TankDawg

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Hi Guys,

Am eager to hear how the Canadians fair that first CG, especially if you have been following my threads in the "Rules" folder.

Any reports out there??
 

apbills

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I can't give you a complete report, as Steve and I are really jsut beginning, but I will give you some things I have noticed.

First, we are just on Turn 3 of the fisrt day, Steve is the Canadians and I am the Germans.

My basic strategy was to use the AT guns to hit whatever targets were the easiest to hit - figuring they would not last long and I wanted to kill as much as possible. This has worked rather well, I fired almost every shot at a tank that managed to get into the open. There are now 11 burning wrecks, 3 of them Fireflys. One of my AT guns boxed out, one is under WP, one is still good, and one is still unseen by the Canadians. I have yet to use IF, but managed to get a few rates, a few low TH rolls, and pretty much any hit is a burn.

I really wish I could buy 50L AT guns. The rate would be a better advantage for hitting the carriers.

I stayed away from the Roos as they were all behind the barrage screen, and figured it was a waste of precious ammo and time to try and hit them. This has allowed them all to survive to this point, but I figured that the actual possible infantry allowed to the Canadians maxes out at around 90, and the Germans can get about 130, so this should not be a bigger problem later in the game.

As for the foot-slogging troops, they are moving fairly well across the Eastern part of the board, with little opposition. I have moved most of my troops back from the crest line due to the large FG capability of the Canadians. We will see what happens when they come up to the next level. I did manage to get one 2-1 shot at one squad, which placed him in the dead pile. The squad that did it has routed up the hill and will hopefully rally prior to the barrage coming in. In addition, the OBA SR is lurking in that area and will hopefully bring down some serious death and destruction on them. How can you miss when you have 20 squads marching across a plowed field?

The barrages are a big part of this attack - and I think both Steve and I think his use of them is not optimal. He choose to advance them only during his PFPh and that is proving to be too slow for his advance. His choice is to move through or around them to attack faster - which exposes the vehicles, or stay behind them - which is slowing his attack.

Both Steve and I are learning as we go, and we are half way through the Canadians MPh for turn 3. We plan on continuing tonight, around 8:30 EST, on the VASL 3 server. If you want to watch, feel free. We are trying out Yahoo voice and that seems to help the pace of the game, although it can be spotty at times.
 

apbills

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TDawg,

Just log into the VASL 3 server and look for myself in a room. COme into the room and ask one of us about syncing. We normally allow up to 3 others without a problem. Make sure you have downloaded the VASL OVHS board before doing this, unless you want to see a whole lot of grey/white with pieces on it.

Once synced, you will be able to watch all the action. If you have Yahoo voice, I'll guide you to the room so you can listen in on our conversation.
 

Bruce Childs

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Nice AAR Alan. Cant wait to jump into the CG. But as far as vasl3 goes, if you dont have it already....yer in for a hunt.

The Rileys map runs ok on my PC, but one of my opponents has major trouble playing this map on vasl4. Very slow to scroll, stacks behaving badly....we had to give it up for live vasl and move it to pbem. On the other hand, vasl3 has no such trouble running Rileys Road. Unfortunately, access to vasl3 has been curtailed in place of vasl4. Not a complaint mind you, but, if vasl3 is available online, or if Rk can make it available to those who want it, I would recommend it at this time. Down the road, as vasl4 is tweaked and refined, it will be much better than vasl3, but for now..........

btw, just got the latest vasl4 update. The LOS feature seems better, but Im getting some strange error messages. If you decide to upgrade, save yer old version of vasl 4 separately. See vasl4 server message board post by John "Bark".

cheers 8)
 

apbills

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A brief update on the ongoing battle.

We have completed Canadian turn 4. The Canadians are finally at or just on the first crest line. Barrages are in that position as well.

Kill tally is 4 Firefly's, 8 Sherman's, 1 Wasp burning. 2 squads KIA. Multiple broken squads around the fields on the west flank, but none in real danger of getting wacked. The middle and east flank has all the armor, Roos, etc. and is positioned to start causing extreme pain to the Germans.

Germans have lost 2 AT to breakdown (one on an IF shot) and 1 additional lost to barrage on the crew, however that gun remains and will soon be in Canadian hands. The crew surrendered, must have been from a non-paratroop unit. One other squad lost to a wasp attack which has started a flame in the building.

German harrassing fire did squat, 2nd OBA mission is ready to land concentrated fire instead, maybe it will do more.

The German tactic at this point is to run back to the level 2 hill mass and try to survive. Barrages are still blocking most of the advancing troops, with the German FFE ready to fill one gap. Most of the troops will be able to extract intact, although a wasp and 2 carriers are on the level 1 hill and in range to cause some problems. The overall strategy is similar to the Russians in RB - survive and fall back. Let the Canadians expose themselves to -1/-2 shots, pick them off as much as possible, but stay in front of them and don't let anyone break through. About 5 Roos have unloaded, but the others are still threats to penetrate, especially due to the loss of 3 AT guns. PF/PSK are nice, but very hard to hit small moving targets. Gotta hope for some low rolls with mgs to take out the carriers.

One comment in general - vehicles really add time to the game. It just takes forever to figure all the terrain additions, etc. for slopes, rain, etc. and seeing slopes on the board can be a problem. And there are sooo many of them. Can't wait to see the Sherman's run when some real large kitty tanks arrive.
 

Von Sibowitz

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Rileys Ridge - AAR

ABills

Just a query on your Barrages...where did you start them ??? Did you start them at or just in front of the the first ridge line ???

I had 2 barrages on the German left flank or Canadian right, (end of barrages, 1 hex apart) and one on the right/middle. All were a hex or 2 in front of or on top of the ridge line and where possible I was endeavouring to barrage any orchard hexes, which are prime for HIP units/AT's etc.

The 2 on the left were the slow paced barrage (correcting every turn and these get to pummel the same hexes twice which is good for those stone buildings) whereas the right one was the faster paced one, correcting each player turn. I had the unfortunate circumstance of ALL the barrages pulling red chits first up...(can you believe it...). This was great from my point of view as the slower paced barrages were able to do damage for 2 & 3 additional pre-turns and were therefore further advanced and had revealed a few HIP units before I had to setup...the down-side to this was that the right one was half way off the board and really did not have any great effect.

I am only into turn 2a of a VASL CG and although they didn't take out any AT's the +2 smoke hindrance is slowing the kills down a bit...this combined with sD/sM useage is providing a lot of cover...although I am still down 6 or so Sherman's, I have been able to get units (mainly the carriers and wasps but also 2 sherm's, although one is now creating a nice smoke plume) up onto the ridge and killed 3 or 4 german squads for ftr on turn 1 alone.

The only road entry point is great for this type of attack as the AT's have to try and hit a +6 target (including the barrage DRM) and if you bring on the sherman's first to try and pop smoke (making sure you don't enter along the road initially) it can actually get easier.

Do this by using the normal sherm's to enter first in the plowed fields, and move as far as possible, then go CE, stop and then pop sD in hex (and then if poss start again). You then use the Firefly's to move in behind the disp smoke (and probably wreck smoke, although a smart opponent will usually hold fire for the late turn rush), and pop sM out a further 3 hexes.....this can be very effective to cover the dash along the road by the wasps/carriers...

Great game thus far but a lllooonnnggg way from the end I know....I will post again if anything else comes up that I think is interesting/relevant....
 

TankDawg

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HI Colin,

Good AAR so far. Thanks!

two points:

1. Why are you stopping vehicles to pop smoke?
2. I take it that rain has not started since you are wisely using lots of smoke.
 

apbills

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Re: Rileys Ridge - AAR

Von Sibowitz said:
ABills

Just a query on your Barrages...where did you start them ??? Did you start them at or just in front of the the first ridge line ???
Steve is the Canadian. He started the barrages about 6 hexes in front of the ridge line, all slow moving. He has one centered on the road, one hitting the Milk Factory area and one hitting the the cluster of buildings on the mid-east flank. After seeing what they can do, I would place them almost side-by-side somewhere to give a nice solid line of +2 hindrance marching up the board. I would make them all fast, and not worry about any real damage from them, just use them for cover.

As for using the road to get up quickly, I just put several hexes of AT mines on it. They are HIP until the first unit enters the board, at which time they become known (although quantity is not), they are easy to remove, as long as you have infantry to do it, but they serve the purpose - i.e., do you really want to risk an AT mine attack? Nothing like setting up your attack to quickly go up the road and when the lead guy comes on board he sees a line of AT mines blocking his path. What do you do now? Add in covering fire to keep the infantry away for awhile and it becomes a nastly delay.
 

Von Sibowitz

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Jeff Newell wrote...

1. Why are you stopping vehicles to pop smoke?


Yeah good question Jeff....I was thinking they had stop to fire but it is only the sM that get the +2 for motion :oops: ........Another reason :idea: to leave some stopped though is so you have smoke making (or WP) capability from your sherman's in the 2a Prep phase....I am just finding this out now as I'm into that part of my turn and most of my sherm's are in mo (or dead) so don't have a lot of this available.

I was able to bring down some smoke from the OBA which helps a little but I think the barrages are your best defensive weapon in conjunction with the wasps and carriers, as they can charge the AT's in the attempt to get your opponent to fire early. These little beauties are hard to hit...+6 normally and throw in a CA change from the AT and you have a real chance of the AT expending its rof on something it has little chance of hitting.....

Also the sherman's are expendable. You are going to take a lot of vehicular losses....best that you take them in the form of sherman's rather than Ram's with infantry which are going to be needed later in the CG.

Yes, there is no rain at the moment and having just rolled for WC in turn 2a, I'm pretty happy thus far. I'm hoping that I can get onto the ridge with most of my mobile forces (or close to) by the end of this move phase and I can then unload and move the infantry forward in 3a.
 

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OVHS Canadian attack strategies.

I am going to be starting OVHS as the Canadians sometime this week or next, and have spent much time mulling over possible attack options. I am planning on having the creeping barrages set as follows:

#1: pre-reg=G10, aim=G22, FFE 1/2, lift DFPh4 (9/10 alt.hex grain)
#2: pre-reg=P10, aim=P24, FFE 1/2, lift PFPh5 (10 hex grain)
#3: pre-reg=KK10, aim=KK22, FFE 1/2, lift DFPh4 (9/10 alt.hex grain)

I may have barrage #1 correct only in PFPh, haven't quite decided yet.
I plan on having my at-start OB concentrate on the west side of the map, and holding the fireflies and carriers A&C until entry on the 2nd turn to be used to transport some of the reinforcements. The reinforcments will concentrate on a push up the east side to eventually take Schwanenhof. I intend to keep the fireflies back as much as possible to save for the 2nd CG to help take out the inevitable German armor. The wasps will support attacks on the Milk Factory, and I may use one to soften up the far west side for a sweep on Ebben behind the cover of the hedge, then east for the CVP locations on the reverse slope of the hill.

Should be a blast. If any of my setup is illegal, or seems just plain stupid, please let me know.

Dave Pearson
<big_d_314@yahoo.com>
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Von Sibowitz

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Rileys Ridge and barrage options

da pearson

With your Barrage placement I would think seriously about the FFE1 and have it correct in your Prep phase only.

Unless you use the paved road, movement through the plowed fields is very slow. Your typical vehicle is going to take 2 turns to reach the crest and then not much further on the 3rd turn as it costs 6 mp to get up the crest (as well as that bog DR).

Most of the German's are theoretically going to setup in or near the first crest and so concentration of the barrages around this area is preferred. The only units that setup further back are maybe the MG nests 1 or 2 ATG's and the OBA spotter. I like the barrage having 2 rolls (ie. in the Prep & Def phase) at a unit in a foxhole 16FP +4 so you still need an average roll for an effect and it also hinders the units fire that little bit longer.

If your concerned about the barrage getting in the way of your units then have it lift after game turn 4 or so. Also I had a lucky experience and pulled red chits for ALL the barrages and had them blast away in the pre-game turns. This was very good as it revealed such things as HIPsters/foxholes and generally revealed units/dummies etc, which are placed prior to my first rally phase and therefore it allowed me some recon on where units were prior to my placement of first turn entry forces as well as breaking a few....Very handy !!!!

My personal opinion only but could provide some food for thought.

Colin
 

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OVHS Canadian strategies.

Yeah, I was thinking about it last night, and realized that I was not taking into consideration the soft ground. I have changed them. Two are centered on the milk factory, the other is straddling the two 1VP buildings on the east side. I am having the 2 on the milk factory correct only in the PFPh. The third I am still debating on. I would like to have it reach into Schwanenhof, since I believe my opponent will set up his reserve squads there.

Dave Pearson
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Von Sibowitz

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OVHS - Barrages

Dave

Don't forget the initial FFE Pre-reg hexes have to be 9 hexes (I think) apart. So you can't bring both in on the same area.....

Colin
 

Von Sibowitz

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OVHS AAR (Early stages of first CG date only)

TankDawg

Haven't proceeded much further since my previous posts (as I was away on holiday's) being only at Canadian turn 3 but things are proceeding OK (I think ??).

I am VASL'ing our game (not live play) and I have found that the Canadian movement phases can be quite involved with 2,3 or 4 mailings for this phase required. I suppose this is moderate in comparison to an RB CG but I haven't played one on VASL to compare.

A quick synopsis is as follows (please note I'm writing from work and can't give you hex details) and note, to date we are without rain, thank god (otherwise it would be a blood bath):

Called in the barrages with one each side of the paved road and the last on the milk factory with all being 2 hexes in front of the ridge-line (and incorporating as many orchard hexes in case of HIP units/AT's). The milk factory barrage was a FFE1-2 (correcting every Prep/DF phase) and the other 2 were FFE1 (correcting only in my Prep).

My thoughts were to bring the bulk of my Kanga force behind the 2 paved road barrages and another 8 or so on the far left (for a board edge creep) and then a spread of shermans, Kanga's along the board edge in general to reduce the concentration of forces. I kept a force of 3 Kanga's in reserve with the expectation of exploiting any holes later in the game.

Started the game off with ALL barrages coming in early (all red carded, typical of the OBA-card bot) with 2 or 3 pre-game turns each. This was actually a huge blessing as they were able to rumble and break/reveal a few units/dummies/fortifications BEFORE I setup and it was generally to my advantage although the milk factory barrage which corrected more frequently accelerated away and really had no impact and did little to hinder the German fire. (mental note: Would in future put all barrages at FFE1 status).

I won't go into a lot of detail on the individual turns but be prepared to lose a lot of armour very quickly. Even with the use of sM, sD, staying in motion and especially the art of hiding behind flamed wrecks (which you will get a lot of with 88's racking up the kills) you are going to lose a LOT of vehicles. The art of this initial CG date is, I think, not to lose to many Kanga's and try and keep the Infantry intact. I am down to 3 shermans left (all the Firefly's are dead, mental note, keep 1 or 2 back till after the AT's are out of action).

Use the wasps and carriers aggressively as they can distract the AT's if you threaten to close on them. They are very hard to hit being +4 (small target & motion) and add the +2 hindrance from the barrage and maybe CA swing and it makes it pretty hard on the first shot.

This has worked well for me (but have still had 2 of the 3 wasps flamed but the resultant smoke is another hindrance to take advantage of) especially the dual smoke placement from the wasps sD, this is a good weapon for clouding the AT's fire.

I'm am currently in my move phase T3 and I am about to roll over the crest on the Canadian left and on the right, I have breached the paved road area and actually have a piat carrier at the paved road crossrads in the rear of the German lines with a sherman positioned half way along the hedge line covering the OG leading up to the forest and 2nd crest (where a pesky HMG/MMG nest has just been smoked by one of the OBA's.

The German AT status is 1 in Canadian hands (positioned on the first crest covering the paved road), 1 with a broken crew due to this turns barrage (stationed in between the 1st & 2nd crests on a slope hex and also covering the paved road), 1 on the far left flank is still operational but enveloped by OBA smoke (so +4 firing out) and hopefully I can overun it this turn. The last is smack in the center in front of the milk factory and is a real pain in the ass. I placed mortar smoke in it this Prep and I can hopefully close on him and take him as I have a wall of Infantry in front of him but still another movement phase away. A carrier is nearby so I will try to charge into the hex to limit fire opportunities.

The German OBA has been coming down on my Kanga's on the right but has had little impact as the number of hindrances is making it hard for the spotter to correct effectively. Also my sniper killed the initial spotting ldr and the german had to run another one back to continue the fire mission.

I think as Canadian you have to hope for the rain to stay away for at least the first 3 or 4 turns and endeavour to sneak your OBA spotters on late in turn 1 and then bring down the smoke on the AT's as quickly as possible (I say smoke and not FFE's as when the AT's start in trenches they are pretty impregenable with +4 on the IFT). Spread your force out and hope for loss of rof (although that hasn't happened for me and even the Intensive shots, of which there have been about 6-8 have not caused a breakdown).

I will post more info in due course but for a first up effort I am enjoying this CG immensely. :D
 

apbills

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Steve Deth and myself have completed the 19am scenario of the OVHS CG. The scenario went 8 turns. We were using the IIFT with conditional PTC (my first time). We started play on VASL3, then converted to VASL4, finishing last night using the 1.1.8 and 4.0.6 versions.

My battle plan as the Germans was to inflict as much damage on the Canadian as he came across the open areas, running away when it became too much of a fight. I used my 88s to kill tanks first, then Wasps, then the Roos and carriers. This strategy really dictated the outcome of this battle. In the end there were substantial armor losses but light infantry losses for the Canadian, and light infantry losses for the German. The Canadian forces are down 14 of 16 tanks, including all the Fireflys. In addition 2 of 3 Wasps are charred wrecks. Only about a depleted company of troops was lost.

On the German side, 3 of 4 88s are gone, with the remaining being a 43/41 on the east flank. 2 squads and 2 crews were also lost along with one HMG.

The ending positions for this day gave the Canadian only 7 LVP, although the last turn allowed some crucial strategic positions to be gained. The setup areas for the Canaidan are as follows:

1) West flank area, F16 building north around the H10 crossroads over to the L11 building. It contains about 1.5 company strength, with the remaining Wasp.
2) A cluster around the N16 building with about a company of troops and a Sherman.
3) The Milk Factory area over to the z area on the first crest line has about a company of troops including the MMG platoon and the other remaining Sherman plus a carrier.
4) A stretch of several small areas with about a depleted company of troops from the DD factory over to the east side of the board, all along the buildings in or near the crest line.

The German setup areas are as follows:

A) Around the B factory buildings on the west with only a platoon of troops
B) 2 squads in the N24 building cluster
C) A large setup area was formed by the rear area troops doing lots of digging during the game, making a ‘U’ shaped loop from the U17 building south to the factory, around the road net to Schwanenhof, up the road to the X12 building. Almost all the remaining Germans are in this large area.
D) A small area around the 88LL gun in TT12 with 1.5 supporting squads.

Items/stats from the battle
- The 88LL in TT12 just destroyed that flank’s attack. Nothing it took, including a CH from those pesky 51mm mortars could take it down. Several burnt out wrecks litter the fields in the area, including a Roo, 2 Shermans and a Wasp. A platoon of paratroopers on the 2nd crest line with LMGs and an MMG from the MG platoon helped protect it from the KK road area as well.
- A coordinated attack by the carriers tried to take down the Lt. and his squad in the F16 building, with the carrier taking multiple shots to do a VBM freeze maneuver with the Wasp coming up to flame the hex. Unfortunately, with a stun counter on the Wasp, and Rain, the 24+2 shot was survived by the tough troopers, but the carrier was fried (by the way – this was an incorrect playing of the rules! The vehicle must be pre-designated to be hit, and we must revive the burning hulk on the map for use in the next scenario. Luckily this happened during Turn 7, although the ensuing smoke did cause some problems. As with all of these mistakes, it is hard to determine what the fix is, i.e., the Carrier is really alive, but most likely would have died in CC that turn anyway. Steve and I will work it out.)
- that same building was counter attacked, with a 548 and 458 fighting to the death during refit. The 548 advanced in under concealment, got an ambush, and then failed to do anything. He died during refit, with the 458 rolling snakes, and creating a 7-0 leader. That was a 4 to 5 hex swing in the front lines, with half a company of Canadians saved from making escape rolls.
- The 9-2 leader and HMG crew vacated N16 after being completely useless, then survived multiple 75mm shots on the crest line with additional IFT shots only to fall to a sniper, which broke the crew (thankfully not the 9-2) but left the HMG in the hex to be captured by the Canadians as their setup area stretched up over the crest line.
- 3 of 5 PF attempts left the units pinned prior to firing, one PF fired a Roo who forgot about such weapons.
- The German OBA got in 2 fire missions before red carding out of the game, doing some minor harassing damage, but didn’t kill anyone. The British OBA didn’t even get radio contact until turn 7, at which time it was clear there was no reason to place an FFE and waste the ammo.
- 2 German 88s malfunctioned, one while using intensive fire. One was captured intact, the other has several rings painted on its barrel. Both captured weapons (88LL and HMG) were eliminated during refit, a blessing for the Germans.
- not a single vehicle needed to roll for crew survival, there are plenty of burned out wrecks littering the fields. (not surprising, although I did have one dud shell from an 88).

A big lesson learned about the setup areas – take your time and make sure you control all the strategic locations in your area, and dig everywhere to make sure you can connect them all together. I know I will need lots of large setup areas in order to shift my troops safely around the board as I counter attack the Canadians later in the game.
 

TankDawg

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ABills said:
Steve Deth and myself have completed the 19am scenario of the OVHS CG.

The Canadian forces are down 14 of 16 tanks, including all the Fireflys. In addition 2 of 3 Wasps are charred wrecks. Only about a depleted company of troops was lost.
Well, my game got post-poned due to Flu of my opponent. But, as Canadian, he will NOT see my FIreflies until turn 7. They bring nothing to this battle and will only get blowed-up! :lol:

Items/stats from the battle
- The 88LL in TT12 just destroyed that flank’s attack. Nothing it took, including a CH from those pesky 51mm mortars could take it down.
Hmmm, that CH automatically destroys the gun, regardless of IFT DR. :shock: That is the beauty of those 51mm MTRs.

Sounds like rain started. I fear that - I really want lots of Smoke.
 

apbills

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TankDawg said:
Hmmm, that CH automatically destroys the gun, regardless of IFT DR. :shock: That is the beauty of those 51mm MTRs.

Sounds like rain started. I fear that - I really want lots of Smoke.
Damn, that's 2 rules we didn't play right. And I can't remember the sequence of events related to it - i.e., did the AT gun kill both tanks prior to that, or just one, or none. Clearly the AT gun needs to go. Another item to resolve during Refit.

Rain started, then quit, then started again.

If I was the Canadian, I think the German would not see any Fireflies for the first scenario, or at least not until all 4 AT guns were located not a threat to those tanks.
 

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Ummm... bring plenty of hip-waders and umbrellas?

From what EXTREMELY LIMITED knowledge I can muster, as the Canadians I'd be prepared to watch my Shermans suffer some serious losses. You really are looking down the long end of the barrel against 4x 88LLs. How bad an idea would it be to pre-register one creeping barrage against the German Group II units?

The Germans get "a buck-load and then some" CPP for 5 scenarios... ouch.
 
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