Another WA Question

[pryoung]

Sorry

Someone asked me about a situation and for some reason I'm having a hard time getting a handle on the rule.

German squad A and Russian squad B are in adjacent open ground hexes with a wall between them. Squad A has WA. It is the German MPh and Squad A moves to an adjacent hex, still open ground, still adjacent to squad B and also with a wall between the two squads. So who gets WA over the new shared hexside?

The rule (B9.322) lists five occasions whereby a unit can claim WA. One of them is during the MPh, and such declaration can be made as part of a MF expenditure. Another is immediately when the opposing player drops WA over all shared hexsides. So:

1. Does the German squad A forfeit WA when he declares his move thus allowing the Russian squad B to immediately claim WA (before the German actually expends the MF to move)?

2. Can the German claim WA as part of his MF expenditure into the new hex thus getting WA before the Russian can claim it?

In other words, who gets first dibs? If pressed, I'd pick option 2, solely based on the last sentence in B9.322 which states that claiming/forfeiting WA cannot occur between declaring an action (the move, in this case) and completing that action. Does this sound right? Ole?

Pete

 

[Seabee Mark]

Pete,

NRBH, in fact its half a world away and has not been handy for several months, but I'll take a stab at this. I say neither 1 nor 2.

1. Does the German squad A forfeit WA when he declares his move thus allowing the Russian squad B to immediately claim WA (before the German actually expends the MF to move)?​

Nope. Unless it declares otherwise, Squad A doesn't lose WA until it exits, so Squad B can not gain WA over that first wall before Squad A actually leaves.

2. Can the German claim WA as part of his MF expenditure into the new hex thus getting WA before the Russian can claim it?​

Nope, because Russian squad B initially owns WA over the second wall (even though not marked) since there is no enemy unit in the new hex. When Squad A moves to the new hex Squad B keeps that WA. Squad A can't claim it as part of movement since B already "owns" WA.

If there was already another German unit ("C") in the moved into Location, and Unit C has WA over B, then Squad A would also have WA.

That's what I think.

Mark

 

[Ole Boe]

Someone asked me about a situation and for some reason I'm having a hard time getting a handle on the rule.

That's understandable, because the rule is unfortunately not clear in this instance :OHNO:

1. Does the German squad A forfeit WA when he declares his move thus allowing the Russian squad B to immediately claim WA (before the German actually expends the MF to move)?

I would say that he forfeits it at the moment it leaves the hex, since until then he fulfills the requirements of B9.32

2. Can the German claim WA as part of his MF expenditure into the new hex thus getting WA before the Russian can claim it?

I'm not sure really. I must confess that we didn't think about this question when writing the second ed. rules. If we had, it would have been addressed in the new example after B9.35.

In other words, who gets first dibs? If pressed, I'd pick option 2, solely based on the last sentence in B9.322 which states that claiming/forfeiting WA cannot occur between declaring an action (the move, in this case) and completing that action. Does this sound right? Ole?

I'm not sure really
I can say that the intention of the last sentence of B9.322 was only to make absolutely clear that you couldn't forfeit WA after someone had declared an attack that didn't cross the LOS, to get in-hex TEM for that attack.
But your argument still sound right: The DEFENDER cannot claim his WA until after the ATTTACKER has moved to the new hex.

Anyway, since we forgot to make this clear when writing it, my answer is no more official than anyone else's but my best guess is option 2 as well.

I also think that an argument for this is that he doesn't loose WA from the first hex until he has left it, and then he has at the same time reached the second hex, so there is no space of time when he lacks WA from both hexes.

 

[Ole Boe]

NRBH, in fact its half a world away and has not been handy for several months, but I'll take a stab at this. I say neither 1 nor 2.

1. Does the German squad A forfeit WA when he declares his move thus allowing the Russian squad B to immediately claim WA (before the German actually expends the MF to move)?​

Nope. Unless it declares otherwise, Squad A doesn't lose WA until it exits, so Squad B can not gain WA over that first wall before Squad A actually leaves.

I agree.

2. Can the German claim WA as part of his MF expenditure into the new hex thus getting WA before the Russian can claim it?​

Nope, because Russian squad B initially owns WA over the second wall (even though not marked) since there is no enemy unit in the new hex. When Squad A moves to the new hex Squad B keeps that WA. Squad A can't claim it as part of movement since B already "owns" WA.

This would be a correct answer if playing on a Deluxe board, since there WA is claimed/retained/lost per hexside.
But in normal ASL, squad B is denied WA over the second wall as well due to squad A claiming it over the first wall. B9.321 says: "if it forfeits/is-denied WA over one of those wall/hedge hexsides it cannot claim WA over any other hexsides"

So my guess is that B is denied WA until the moment A enters the second hex and claims WA there, and therefore continues to deny B any WA.

Picture it as squad A moving sideways along the wall.

 

[pryoung]

Picture it as squad A moving sideways along the wall.

Which is exactly what the original person who contacted me was trying to describe.

Thanks for the responses. Maybe I'll submit a Q&A to Perry to get a semi-official clarification.

Pete

 

[Seabee Mark]

This would be a correct answer if playing on a Deluxe board, since there WA is claimed/retained/lost per hexside.
But in normal ASL, squad B is denied WA over the second wall as well due to squad A claiming it over the first wall. B9.321 says: "if it forfeits/is-denied WA over one of those wall/hedge hexsides it cannot claim WA over any other hexsides"

Now that is good to know - deny one wall, deny all walls. Thanks, Ole.

Mark