Another Turnscrew rules question

sdennis

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The special snipers are "fired at as if concealed", what does this mean for ITT acquisition? Does this mean you can't fire a tank or gun at them and gain/use ITT acquisition?
Or can you get acquisition and use it with the +2 Case K?

Normally if you hit a concealed target you gain ITT acquisition but can't use it against ? target...

By the letter it seems like you can't gain/use it but that seems weird...
 

Eagle4ty

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A concealed target is unknown to the firer and if using ITT, acquisition cannot be gained or used (C6.5) "When a Gun (including the MA and SA [Secondary Armament, as per Chapter H Vehicle Listings], of vehicles [EXC: not FT or LATW]) of ≥ 20mm other than a mortar fires at (not Interdicts) a Known unit or a bridge, it may place a ½" -1 Acquired counter on its target (or flip over an already present -1 counter to the -2 side), and this Acquired counter then applies as a TH DRM for subsequent shots by that Gun...".
 

sdennis

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Right, but in this case the sniper is KNOWN, but you fire at it "as if concealed"... that's the rub IMHO
 

Eagle4ty

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Right, but in this case the sniper is KNOWN, but you fire at it "as if concealed"... that's the rub IMHO
I don't have any specific insight into the rule as promulgated but given the wording as provided, I would just consider the Sniper Concealed regardless of its known status. That is to say one must apply +2 Case K to the TH DRM and to gain/maintain acquisition one must fire with ATT TH. (JMHO)
 

Den589

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I don't have any specific insight into the rule as promulgated but given the wording as provided, I would just consider the Sniper Concealed regardless of its known status. That is to say one must apply +2 Case K to the TH DRM and to gain/maintain acquisition one must fire with ATT TH. (JMHO)
Yeah, that's how we played it, just seemed weird to us both. Steve's trying to develop some way to deal with these snipers. I think he's settling on either smoking them continuously so anybody in a building is +6 and can't be targeted or if available WP'ing them for the free MC.
 

sdennis

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Yeah I was wondering if the boys would see this and respond if this was thought about during design/playtest.
 

Carln0130

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The special snipers are "fired at as if concealed", what does this mean for ITT acquisition? Does this mean you can't fire a tank or gun at them and gain/use ITT acquisition?
Or can you get acquisition and use it with the +2 Case K?

Normally if you hit a concealed target you gain ITT acquisition but can't use it against ? target...

By the letter it seems like you can't gain/use it but that seems weird...
That is correct. You know the area the shot came from, but cannot hone in on it. ATT only. I will confirm with Tom and get back, but that is my remembering of the rule.
 

sdennis

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Thanks guys. I could get to that interpretation but like I said... just seemed weird "as if" leaves room for arguing :)
 

sdennis

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"Dennis ITT Clause" is trademarked, copyrighted, etc. :)
I just think to be clear, a "ITT Acquisition cannot be gained/used against the sniper" would have been sufficiently clear no?
 

Eagle4ty

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"Dennis ITT Clause" is trademarked, copyrighted, etc. :)
I just think to be clear, a "ITT Acquisition cannot be gained/used against the sniper" would have been sufficiently clear no?
I just sent a Q to Perry regarding this matter as I believe no but others believe an existing 1/2" (e.g. ITT) acquisition could be used on an initial shot vs only a "concealed/HIP" unit.
 

Carln0130

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"Dennis ITT Clause" is trademarked, copyrighted, etc. :)
I just think to be clear, a "ITT Acquisition cannot be gained/used against the sniper" would have been sufficiently clear no?
Yes. Eagle, since it pertains to a specific SSR that does not appear in an MMP product, you may not get a reply from Perry. I do see your question and understand it, but I believe an ITT acq never applies vs Concealed/HIP, whether it existed prior or not.
 

Eagle4ty

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Yes. Eagle, since it pertains to a specific SSR that does not appear in an MMP product, you may not get a reply from Perry. I do see your question and understand it, but I believe an ITT acq never applies vs Concealed/HIP, whether it existed prior or not.
I asked the Q in a more general manner as I too believe an ITT/VTT acquisition cannot be used vs a concealed/HIP unit but as per another thread others do not seem to agree.
 

klasmalmstrom

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C6.51 seems rather clear to me:
" ½" Acquired-counter DRM applies only to all Known units (/bridge) in that target Location, even if only one such unit therein was previously acquired. "
 

Carln0130

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C6.51 seems rather clear to me:
" ½" Acquired-counter DRM applies only to all Known units (/bridge) in that target Location, even if only one such unit therein was previously acquired. "
Agree.
 
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