Bocko
Member
Can a NON-HIP Concealed Unit prevent an Enemy Unit from becoming Concealed without losing its own Concealment?
Thanks
Chris
Thanks
Chris
This is one reason to not just take known dummies off the board just because everybody knows its a dummy. They do prevent the opposing side from gaining concealment.CPL ScottH said:Yup;
Concealed units can deny concealment to non concealed enemy units in LOS. Dummy ? denies enemy units from gaining concealment. Hopefully this has not been changed in MMP's version 2E rules.
Scott
Please note the difference between stripping ? and denying it.Andy said:Ah, I though it required a "momentary reveal" of a real unit. Good to know.
Thx.
I used to play in this "gentleman" manner and only get my opponent's word that a real unit saw him. I have changed my view however. Not because I don't trust my opponent's, but because that's not what the rules say.Opinions vary as to just exactly what is revealed, and the rulebook is variously interpreted by (seemingly) reasonable people. Some folks say that "showing a boot" from under the ? counter is enough to verify the unit is real. Others say that you have to reveal the unit for what amounts to momentary inspection i.e. the other guy sees what the unit is and what he's carrying. In a gentlemanly game, my opponent's word that it's real is usually good enough for me.
Hey Ole,Ole Boe said:The rules tell that the unit must be momentarily revealed, i.e. I will be able to look at the unit for a few seconds. (IIRC it has been clarified that it means that I will get a good look at the unit).
OK, (and I'm just relating the arguments I've heard in the past) does that mean that you get complete right of inspection along with an SW possessed? Or does it only happen very momentarily to verify that it is indeed a real unit. Or something in between?pitman said:It doesn't say "partially" reveal, it says momentarily reveal. Thus I request that the entire counter be revealed.
Yup, that is correct.Bocko said:for example: a concealed unit nonassault moves into a woods hex and the only unit within 16 hexes is an enemy concealed unit. My initial thinking was the unit loses concealment. After futher comments, my thinking is that the unit only loses concealment if the enemy unit is willing to Momentarily Reveal its own units.
Is this correct or not?
Thanks
Chris
Remember that is says reveal, and that the modification is momentarily, not partly. Compare this to other places where a unit must be revealed, as in A12.15:Andy said:It would be good to get a ruling on what the minimum is: boot, the unit, or unit + SW. I know in A12.16 and CC, it requires that the strength factors be shown momentarily for attack odds calculation during ambush. Now is that just a "boot + strength" (full unit) or do you get to see SW?
.A12.15 said:...DEFENDER must immediately reveal at least one concealed unit in that Location and thereby force the moving unit back
It is kosher if the PB CG rules defines him as the Scenario Attacker, even though he didn't enter all from offboard. If there is no such definition, he shouldn't be using cloaking at all.I'm playing PB Night III. I allowed him to setup onboard cloaked (not sure if that's kosher), anyway he's running cloaking counters through strategic control hexes.
I don't have the PB rules available, but generally, control is something you either have or not, it doesn't matter what either player claim or think. So one player can enter a Location with a dummy unit, getting the opponent to think that he lost control without actually doing it. Similarily, a player can enter a building with a GO unit, stating that he got control, but then see at scenario end that there was a HIP enemy unit, meaning that his statement was wrong.Can he claim hex control without momentary reveal? Does this turn the cloaking counter into a concealment stack? The rules say he can sit there and declare control at game end when the cloaking comes off. Or if I have HIPsters I can declare it if he's not in hex and hasn't search/mopped me.