An Open Letter to the Forum

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Snudl

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Just so everyone is aware---

I am an ardent opponent of Nazism. Frequently, people object to raising "politics" on the forum, but on the contrary, I find that there are far too many Nazi apologists and SS cultists on these boards that refuse to shut the **** up.

I have written a letter to Mattel asking that the cease and desist using Nazi iconography in the ASL game system. Specifically, I am asking that all publication and sales of Nazi icons as part of the ASL system be stopped, including Chapter F, Kampfgruppe Peiper, Festung Budapest, SS specific counters and all scenarios featuring an identifiable Nazi icon. I haven't mailed the letter, but I have written it. I will also write a letter to Ebay, Inc. ensuring that these materials are also not sold second hand. I will also inform the Jewish Anti Defamation League, Unite Against Fascism and the Children of the Holocaust.

Involved in this are two key court cases: Harjo v. Pro-Football, Inc. and Blackhorse v. Pro-Football, Inc. The US Trademark Trial and Appeal Board held that trademarks bearing racist symbols are not enforceable under US patent law. These cases were ultimately overturned by federal appeals courts, but in fact the case against Nazi symbols is far, far more simple to make and would have extremely powerful allies. In order for the trademark not to be valid, opponents must show: 1) the likely meaning of the mark and (2) if that meaning refers to an identifiable group. There isn't even a question of this with regard to a swastika or an SS rune.

Essentially, this means the trademark for any product featuring Nazi icons is not enforceable.

Argue all you want, but I bet Mattel won't even think about it. You think Ebay is going to go to the mat for your right to have Black SS counters? So don't even respond. I don't give a **** what you think about the legal merits.

Just stop the SS crap or I take a sledgehammer to the door marked "**** Repository."

It's bad enough that you play a game where one side role-plays Nazis killing Jews in Ghettos. I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking everyone to not offend me.

Or, just get everyone together and have me banned. The JADL would love that too.

I hate Nazis.
 

morgan kane

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Yes please ban him...

My grandmother was a member (And very active one unfortunately) of the NSDAP do I approve? of course not, my grandfather was an artillery officer in the 32:nd infantry division, does it impress me?, not much.. but he survived and that impress me and he survived 5 years in a french prison camp and that was no "kindergarten" according to my grandfather when I asked him in the 80:th, that impress me as well. Knowing that my grandmother commited suicide when the russian came in 1945 (and of course I never met here), and to me that was really a pity, would have loved to ask here one question; what were you thinking???

With this in mind it is just a game, thats it! no more no less and has nothing to do with politics, anyone that can not cope with that please leave, but please do it quietly.

/Morgan
 
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Aaron Cleavin

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Just so everyone is aware---

1. I have written a letter to Mattel asking that the cease and desist using Nazi iconography in the ASL game system.

2. I hate Nazis.
One, why write a letter to Mattel when Hasbro and Mattel are completely different corporations?

Two your hate makes you weaker and behave less than optimally.

I despise Nazism and all the actsperpetrated in it's name, I abhor those beliefs in Nazism and those espousing
it (Nazis) that are anathema too all that is good about the human condition (and there are many of these beliefs)

I do not though "hate" Nazis: I pity them, I cry for them and the victims of their actions in the name of
Nazism. Not being divine I do find it not possible to easily love them. Some caught at the edge of what was
a pervasive mental disease and Zeitgeist I can find forgiveness for, and many in this case have found
forgiveness for their actions in their own hearts and those of others other through many years of penance.
Others closer to the maelstrom I would find it harder to forgive and it is certainly not for me to do so.

Hate makes you weak and draws you down to a lower common denominator, try not to let it do so.
 
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SonOfTheNorth

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The US Trademark Trial and Appeal Board held that trademarks bearing racist symbols are not enforceable under US patent law. These cases were ultimately overturned by federal appeals courts, but in fact the case against Nazi symbols is far, far more simple to make and would have extremely powerful allies. In order for the trademark not to be valid, opponents must show: 1) the likely meaning of the mark and (2) if that meaning refers to an identifiable group. There isn't even a question of this with regard to a swastika or an SS rune.
I believe you misinterpret the ruling. The court says the trademark is not enforceable. This would mean that Pro-Football cannot prevent anyone else from using the term "Redskins". It does not mean they cannot use it. Also, Hasbro's used of SS insignia is historical in nature, not celebratory. You are effectively asking all textbooks to also remove the SS insignia when telling the tail of WWII.

I understand your contempt for Nazism, but your crusade against history is a bit misplaced.
 

Srynerson

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Specifically, I am asking that all publication and sales of Nazi icons as part of the ASL system be stopped, including Chapter F, Kampfgruppe Peiper, Festung Budapest, SS specific counters and all scenarios featuring an identifiable Nazi icon
Um, what do you have against the DTO? I can't recall any "Nazi icons" in that chapter.
 

Markdv5208

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What Chris said.

FOR the record, I've played Mila 18...as the Partisan. It was BEFORE the internet and BEFORE there was a deep thought about the implications ie potentially glorifying the SS. I know I got a 458 ie dead SS troops who I then put a 337 over to improve the unit. Feels good even now....

I don't see that even now. It's just a game that simulates historical battles.

Won't neg rep you though. You're entitled to your opinion....
 

chris_olden

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You're entitled to your opinion....
But it doesn't mean that everyone is going to agree with you.
After more "smoking on matters" about this thread, I'm tempted to throw the
"TROLL" label at Snudl for an obvious attempt to ruffle feathers.
Is there ANYONE in their right mind who likes the Nazis, what they stood for,
and what they did?
I didn't think so.
 

OttoBomb

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I smell troll job.

Snudl, since you are so open to sharing your efforts here, can you please post a copy of any/all letters you are sending off to Mattel, eBay, wherever? Thanks!

Also, the Japanese Rising Sun logo is gaining recognition as symbol of racism and murder. I find it offensive that you would single out only the Western Victims of war crimes/crimes against humanity and ignore the activities in Asia. Please be sure to expand your complaints to include any all use of this symbol in any form. The JADL might not care about the Rising Sun, but many Korean groups would be interested. You wouldn't want to come off racist against Asians would you? Please post copies of any/all letters in this effort also. Thanks!
 

hongkongwargamer

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Good point about the Rising Sun. I don't dare order the Rising Sun Battledice for I am sure if my dad sees them he will have me swallow them.

Rgds Jack

PS but I don't get offended by the product myself

I smell troll job.

Snudl, since you are so open to sharing your efforts here, can you please post a copy of any/all letters you are sending off to Mattel, eBay, wherever? Thanks!

Also, the Japanese Rising Sun logo is gaining recognition as symbol of racism and murder. I find it offensive that you would single out only the Western Victims of war crimes/crimes against humanity and ignore the activities in Asia. Please be sure to expand your complaints to include any all use of this symbol in any form. The JADL might not care about the Rising Sun, but many Korean groups would be interested. You wouldn't want to come off racist against Asians would you? Please post copies of any/all letters in this effort also. Thanks!
 
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sunoftzu

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Good point about the Rising Sun. I don't dare order the Rising Sun Battledice for I am sure if my dad sees them he will have me swallow them.

Rgds Jack

PS but I don't get offended by the product myself
The cover to AP#9 is a bit eye-catching, especially if you live in Asia. I don't advocate banning every little thing that offends someone, but I do seem to find myself leaving the cover at home when I read the scenarios on the bus...... :)

John.
 
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