Aircraft Questions.

[Justiciar]

He can't seem to log back in. I suspect that this is his subterfuge for his inability to suffer fools lightly. On the other hand, I am almost imperious to insult. Having been a severest stutterer in my populous Lancaster County. Also, my father yelled at me for most of my life. Hard shell. Like an early American pre-dreadnought. Tim

One other chap here on GS also seems to have the log in problem, and he is not the type to have been banned for subterfuge. So your buddy is not alone in the jamming issue. Hopefully it will resolve itself soon.

 

[Robin Reeve]

Do you folks think that the notorious ambiguities of the first edition ASL rules have been muted, and that the second edition of ASL has rhetorical coherence? I Don and I share a lawyer, who many years ago compared the first edition of the rules as suitable for the employment of a "Philadelphia Lawyer." Tim

I don't see many "notorious ambiguities" in the rules.
Sure, 1st edition did need some clarifications and errata, but nothing dramatical - you can play ASL with 1st edition without too many problems.

What me and others have tried to explain to you on a number of occasions is that ASL rules are written in a very precise way - more like a programming language than in a conversational way.
That precise language is required for rules questions, if one expects precise answers.
But no need to be a lawyer : proper reading skills and use of the Index and cross references are enough to answer most of the rules questions.
If things don't seem clear, well, Gamesquad is there, with Klas, Jrv, Perry rule gurus and other competent players.

ASL belongs to a gaming culture quite different from games where a lot of "do as you feel right" decisions are required - perhaps RPGs are at the other end of the spectrum, where house rules are the rule.
Actually, even more simple wargames require precise language.
I would believe that Internet pushed things in that direction, as questions and answers are accessible to many players - compared with the postal system - and rules debates have narrowed down the latitude of interpretation.

If you look at the questions and answers in this folder, you will have noticed that, most of the time, the answer was clearly spelled in the rulebook, without any ambiguity.
In many cases, I have received answers which demonstrated how much the rules system is incredibly coherent - and how much I am incredibly less...
For the volume that the rules represent, the level of ambiguities and need of errata is very low.

ASL is in itself a special gaming culture and philosophy.
And it asks the basic tactical skill : learn to adapt.

 

[Eagle4ty]

In other words with words that will ring true to the Col., "Adjust, adapt and overcome", or more to the point "suck it up and drive on!":study:

 

[Tim Niesen]

Perhaps Section A. is clear, but the air rules were inexplicable to me upon first and second reading. My regular opponent compared them to his experience learning French. However, Don is a much better reader of rules than Steve, and after your collective, and especially JR's explanations of the strafing rules, we were we able to apply them to his air attacks upon the infantry and tanks of poor Col. Smith. His tanks if not the good order of his infantry survived. Thanks, for your collective wisdom. Tim

 

[Robin Reeve]

Air Support is in chapter E which came with Yanks and wasn't part of the original 1st ed. rulebook.
Chapter E is included in 2nd edition.
I don't recall major changes in the Air Support rules.
Can your point out where 2nd ed. brought major improvements?

 

[Tim Niesen]

I hesitate to ask another question, but Don and I have differing interpretations of JR interpretation of the strafing penetration. The 42 fighter attacks the Soviet Stuart from the side during a strafing run. The fighter get a plus one for the aerial attack. He hit the turret of the Soviet Stuart. This is a strafing attack and not a second point attack. The die roll is a three, with the colored die of one. The penetration is a six and the aerial armor of the Stuart side turret is a three. The differece is three. A little Stun result according to my interpretation. This happens during the Rumanian defensive fire. If my interpretation is correct, when does the little Stun flip to the plus one side? Don insists that it is a full turn; that is, after next Soviet turn is over. I am simply not sure. Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

Don insists that the entire idea of tanks having anything but rear armor is spurious. That is from what ever direction the airplane attacks should be irrelevant to the armor of the tank. Maybe this is something that I overlooked in the air rules. If so I am at fault for asking these questions. Tim

 

[STAVKA]

I hesitate to ask another question, but Don and I have differing interpretations of JR interpretation of the strafing penetration. The 42 fighter attacks the Soviet Stuart from the side during a strafing run. The fighter get a plus one for the aerial attack. He hit the turret of the Soviet Stuart. This is a strafing attack and not a second point attack. The die roll is a three, with the colored die of one. The penetration is a six and the aerial armor of the Stuart side turret is a three. The differece is three. A little Stun result according to my interpretation. This happens during the Rumanian defensive fire. If my interpretation is correct, when does the little Stun flip to the plus one side? Don insists that it is a full turn; that is, after next Soviet turn is over. I am simply not sure. Tim

42 FB TK#5 +1 always benefit - Rear Target Facing, +1 Aerial Advantage = TK#7 vs Aerial Armor Factor on the Stuart is only 2.

TK DR of 6; No Effect
TK DR of 5; stun +1
TK DR of 4 or 3; wreck
TK DR of 2; burning wreck

 

[jrv]

The base TK# for a 42FB MG is 5. That is modified by rear target facing +1 and aerial +1 from the C7.1 table for a modified TK# of 7. The rear target facing TK modifier always applies to aerial attack, regardless of the actual facing of the vehicle relative to the aircraft. Range-based modification is n/a when the aerial range is eight hexes (four hexes ground range). The Soviet Stuart III's worst printed AF is 3, so it's aerial AF is 2. The Aerial AF is always the same for a vehicle regardless of the aspect and facing hit. The Final TK# is 5 (modified TK# - AF). On a TK DR of three,the Stuart is eliminated but not blazing. On a TK DR of two, it is blazing. On a TK DR of five it is stunned (STUNNED if already stunned). A TH DR of six is "no effect" because the attack was a MG attack.

JR

 

[STAVKA]

....Range-based modification is n/a when the aerial range is eight hexes (four hexes ground range).

Not within 6 hexes (3 hex ground range) either.

E7.41...Case D (Range Effects) do not apply to Aerial MG attacks.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Okay, my bad. Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

So the die roll composition, ie., colored die versus white die, has no relevance to location of an air attack upon a Tank. Therefore, the Soviet Stuart has no hard turret to side and rear. Right? How to deal with A.2 and an incompetent umpire like me is another question. Don did vehemently object, however. I feel sorry for Col. Smith: the odds of his getting two planes while Don got three was 215 to 1. Airpower in ASL certainly can be a game changer. Tim

 

[jrv]

Hit Location can affect bombs (result may be an immob or a shock, depending on which aspect hit) but not MG. It does not affect the aerial AF, and it is only the aerial AF that apply to attacks by aircraft.

Fixing an error is always difficult. Aircraft are a bit like OBA: they can be very powerful. Or not.

JR

 

[Tim Niesen]

We will fix it. Resignation for the Soviet player is an option. Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

Resignation was decided after two more Soviet Stuarts were KIA as well as the two important leaders, 9-2 and 8-1. Don rolled 8 dice rolls of three out of twenty total. Start over. Col. Smith wants the Rumanians. But now to The question: if a bomb from airplane hits a foxhole is that a plus 4 like ART or a plus 3 in foxhole/woods. Tim

 

[jrv]

if a bomb from airplane hits a foxhole is that a plus 4 like ART or a plus 3 in foxhole/woods.

The TEM is +2. All attacks except OBA and OVR use +2, and the foxhole +2 TEM is not cumulative with other (positive) TEM.

JR

 

[Tim Niesen]

Is a minus one for woods applied like an indirect area fire hit?

 

[jrv]

Is a minus one for woods applied like an indirect area fire hit?

No, per the index indirect fire is MTR/OBA only.

JR

 

[Robin Reeve]

is that a plus 4 like ART

Direct fire artillery applies +2 DRM. Off Board Artillery applies +4 DRM.
"ART" in ASL designates onboard Artillery guns, never OBA.
FB or Stuka bombs attacks use TH DR and attack as direct fire ordnance.

E7.42 ...A FB can bomb any target four hexes distant as part of its Strafing Run (or three hexes distant if making the second attack of a Point Attack), but must first score a hit on the 7-12 column (or the 0-6 column if the Aerial Range is ≤ six hexes) of the applicable Infantry/Vehicle Target Type of the To Hit Table (C3), using all DRM applicable to Aerial Attacks (C6) and the Black To Hit Number.
E7.422 AREA TARGET TYPE: An aircraft may make a bomb attack using the Area Target Type instead of the Vehicle/Infantry Target Type, but any hit is resolved with only half the FP of the bomb load.

 

[Tim Niesen]

What are the advantages of using area target type rather than the standard attack while using fighter bombers? A much greater chance of hitting? There was only one Soviet fighter bomber in the last game, and I simply watched for my first time the application of the rules concerning bombing. First, the Rumanian units had to be targeted in the wooded foxhole. After that succesful dice roll, the unit was not hit because the attacker did not roll a one or a two on a die roll. The bomb therefore went astray. Did we follow the correct procedure. Tim