AFV Rider in a building at setup.

=FC=Gorgon

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Hi Folks,

Is it legal for a Rider to setup on an AFV that is in a building or woods? I know a Rider must Bail Out if the AFV enters a building or woods hex. But it is not 100% clear if setting up this way is legal or not. I suspect it is not.

Thanks in advance,
MikeS
 
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EagleIV

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My version of D6.21 says "Riders are not allowed while the vehicle is moving through ... buildings [EXC friendly Vehicular-Sized entrance...]..." So you can load them, but the vehicle can't usually spend a start MP unless about to leave a factory.
 

Larry

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It is clear that through includes entry. What is not clear is if through includes exiting. That being said, I think the better interpretation is that through includes exiting. If the intent were otherwise, the rule would state enter building, etc. The use of a different word points to a different, not redundant, meaning.
 

bendizoid

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Are you putting your 9-2 with a radio on the tank?
 

EagleIV

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I would consider through to include exiting as well as changing the VCA.
 

von Marwitz

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What he plans is probably to set up a vehicle with Riders in a Building for added protection at start and/or for saving some MP to bypass that Building would he set up anywhere else.

As the rule is written, he is neither entering nor moving through a hex. Thus I would tend to allow it.

EDIT:
I revise my opinion stated above after reading the argument of @Juzek below:

A2.9 "a unit...may not set up in a hex it cannot enter in the normal course of play."
D6.21 "Riders are not allowed when moving through a woods ... building..."

As Riders would not be able to enter a building in the normal course of play, the conclusion is indeed that they may not set up as Riders in a building.

von Marwitz
 
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Mister T

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If a SSR grants HIP status to a tank, then it might be advantageous to put Riders on top of it as PRC share the status of their vehicle.

Possibly a Q&A will eventually disallow it in the future :). Currently it would be allowed, but i may be wrong.
 

klasmalmstrom

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If a SSR grants HIP status to a tank, then it might be advantageous to put Riders on top of it as PRC share the status of their vehicle.

Possibly a Q&A will eventually disallow it in the future :). Currently it would be allowed, but i may be wrong.
I seem to recall an earlier discussion (possible Q&A) that amounted to Riders/Passengers on vehicles allowed to set up using HIP were not given "free" HIP.

Though I can't find any Q&A now - so perhaps it was just a discussion on some forum. :)
 

von Marwitz

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I seem to recall an earlier discussion (possible Q&A) that amounted to Riders/Passengers on vehicles allowed to set up using HIP were not given "free" HIP.

Though I can't find any Q&A now - so perhaps it was just a discussion on some forum. :)
Hm, but what would be the consequence of this?
The AFV is HIP, its Riders not. Would that mean 'floating Riders' or deny HIP to the AFV or disallow Riders on a HIP AFV?

von Marwitz
 

klasmalmstrom

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Hm, but what would be the consequence of this?
The AFV is HIP, its Riders not. Would that mean 'floating Riders' or deny HIP to the AFV or disallow Riders on a HIP AFV?
The consequence would be that the AFV can't set up using HIP, since the PRC shares the same "?"-status.

I can't really recall - the discussion might not even been here on GS.
 

Gordon

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Lol, I imagine a bunch of guys seemingly hovering 7 feet off the ground holding up a sign that says "Nothing to see, no tank here."
 

Michael Dorosh

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Lol, I imagine a bunch of guys seemingly hovering 7 feet off the ground holding up a sign that says "Nothing to see, no tank here."
Spotting is also sound dependent. So the enemy would not be able to hear the engine of your 30 ton tank, but would be able to hear the guys on top whispering to each other.
 

Juzek

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Hi Folks,

Is it legal for a Rider to setup on an AFV that is in a building or woods? I know a Rider must Bail Out if the AFV enters a building or woods hex. But it is not 100% clear if setting up this way is legal or not. I suspect it is not.

Thanks in advance,
MikeS
Doesn't A2.9 apply? "a unit...may not set up in a hex it cannot enter in the normal course of play." D6.21 "Riders are not allowed when moving through a woods ... building..." That's how I would interpret it anyway.
 

=FC=Gorgon

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The reason I asked the question is that I am setting up for another go at Pegasus Bridge and this time I am the Germans. For Night I, the Germans are under a very restrictive No Move rule. But if an AFV is able to Move, all radio equipped AFVs are their PRC are too. So I wanted to put an AFV with the best chance to lose his No Move. This would put in in Woods or a Building. I also want to put a Rider on top so he would lose No Move too and be able to catch a ride into the action. :)

I tend to believe that this would be illegal for various reasons. But it was worth discussing. :)

Thanks!
 

Juzek

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The reason I asked the question is that I am setting up for another go at Pegasus Bridge and this time I am the Germans. For Night I, the Germans are under a very restrictive No Move rule. But if an AFV is able to Move, all radio equipped AFVs are their PRC are too. So I wanted to put an AFV with the best chance to lose his No Move. This would put in in Woods or a Building. I also want to put a Rider on top so he would lose No Move too and be able to catch a ride into the action. :)

I tend to believe that this would be illegal for various reasons. But it was worth discussing. :)

Thanks!
Its been a long time since I played the PB CG - why is it important to have the AFV in a woods or building? Best LOS to a British landing hex?
 

von Marwitz

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Doesn't A2.9 apply? "a unit...may not set up in a hex it cannot enter in the normal course of play." D6.21 "Riders are not allowed when moving through a woods ... building..." That's how I would interpret it anyway.
That's what I name a good point! ?

I think this brings me to revise the opinion I held so far, and I now believe setting up Riders on an AFV in a Building is N/A. I have edited my post upthread accordingly.

von Marwitz
 
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WuWei

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A tank is located inside a building. A squad enters the building and spends 1 MF to hop onto the tank. Now there are Riders on a tank inside a building. Legal or not? Since the AFV is not moving, this doesn't seem to be forbidden by D6.21.
 

klasmalmstrom

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A tank is located inside a building. A squad enters the building and spends 1 MF to hop onto the tank. Now there are Riders on a tank inside a building. Legal or not? Since the AFV is not moving, this doesn't seem to be forbidden by D6.21.
I think it is legal, and I also think it's legal to set up a vehicle inside a building with Riders.
 

von Marwitz

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A tank is located inside a building. A squad enters the building and spends 1 MF to hop onto the tank. Now there are Riders on a tank inside a building. Legal or not? Since the AFV is not moving, this doesn't seem to be forbidden by D6.21.
But then, it is a squad that enters. Not an AFV with Riders.

Maybe worth a 'Perry Sez'.

von Marwitz
 
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