Warbear
Member
A BU AFV (no PRC) is concealed in a woods hex.
If HE fire into this hex results in a PTC, does the AFV lose concealment?
If HE fire into this hex results in a PTC, does the AFV lose concealment?
Well if he hit concealed Infantry unit, chances are he hit a concealed Vehicle. The hit is enough. The PTC result is immaterial. It's possible the AFV is a small or double small vehicle which could be enough to cause a miss on the vehicle ands still theoretically hit Infantry. You'll have to do that math on your own. -- jimThanks!
But I didn't want to ask for a To Hit, I wanted to ask for an Infantry shot against the AFV, which resulted in a Pin Task Check (on the IFT).
My opponent mentioned that this would be enough to lose concealment.
If you are attacking a concealed AFV directly on the IFT and get a "PTC" (or better) result - the AFV will only lose concealment if there's a vulnerable PRC.But I didn't want to ask for a To Hit, I wanted to ask for an Infantry shot against the AFV, which resulted in a Pin Task Check (on the IFT).My opponent mentioned that this would be enough to lose concealment.
Exactly this was the answer on my question and my understanding of the rules.So just shooting into the hex and getting a "PTC" and there's no vul. PRC on the vehicle, won't cause it to lose "?".
So Case A on the Gain/Loss table says "Vehicle Hit by Ordnance". Assuming the the DR was rolled low enough to affect the vehicle, wouldn't that qualify as "hit by Ordnance" and thus remove concealment? Or is your contention that "Vehicle Hit by Ordnance" only applies if it is hit on the VTT? -- jimIf you are attacking a concealed AFV directly on the IFT and get a "PTC" (or better) result - the AFV will only lose concealment if there's a vulnerable PRC.
A12.2:
"A concealed vehicle in the LOS of a Good Order enemy ground unit (regardless of range) loses its concealment if hit on a To Hit Table, or by at least a “PTC” result vs its vulnerable PRC (or its corresponding DR, on the * Vehicle line or for OBA regardless of PRC vulnerability),.."
So just shooting into the hex and getting a "PTC" and there's no vul. PRC on the vehicle, won't cause it to lose "?".
Per A12.2 a hit on any To Hit Table will strip "?":So Case A on the Gain/Loss table says "Vehicle Hit by Ordnance". Assuming the the DR was rolled low enough to affect the vehicle, wouldn't that qualify as "hit by Ordnance" and thus remove concealment? Or is your contention that "Vehicle Hit by Ordnance" only applies if it is hit on the VTT?
Agreed. I just want to make sure that if an Attack rolls low enough on the TH DR using ATT that it get's a chance to roll an effect on the IFT against said vehicle, the vehicle will lose Concealment regardless of the result. Just getting hit is enough to strip the concealment. -- jimPer A12.2 a hit on any To Hit Table will strip "?":
A concealed vehicle in the LOS of a Good Order enemy ground unit (regardless of range) loses its concealment if hit on a To Hit Table,..."
Agree.Just getting hit is enough to strip the concealment. -- jim
See Klas' response in post #8 above. Yes, a hit on the ITT is enough. -- jimWhat about an ordnance hit using the ITT? Per C3.32, AFV without exposed PRC are immune to damage from ITT hits, but in this case we're not looking at damage, only to being hit... So a hit on the ITT (maybe targeting possible HIP infantry) would also reveal a hidden AFV?
A BU AFV (no PRC) is concealed in a woods hex.
If HE fire into this hex results in a PTC, does the AFV lose concealment?
A12.2 If a Location containing a concealed AFV
in LOS of a Good Order enemy ground unit is
subjected to a non-ordnance attack that results in
at least a PTC on the IFT, does the AFV lose its
"?"?
A. Only if the attack is OBA, and/or if the AFV is
CE. [Gen26.5; An95w; An96; Mw]
A12.2 How does an armored vehicle in
concealment terrain lose "?" by being fired on by
a MMC using Inherent FP?
A. It doesn't; a BU CT AFV is unaffected by
Small Arms fire, including "?" loss. A PTC or
better vs. vulnerable PRC or dummies causes "?"-
loss if in LOS. [Compil4]
Believe the first, official, one was input to the updated text in the 2nd Edition.Yes, there's Q&A. Here it is: