African American divisions in Advanced Squad Leader

[Actionjick]

What's the difference between wanting to see more scenarios with T-35s than more scenarios with African Americans?

DYO is the answer to all these diverse ASL problems.

 

[Actionjick]

Such a unit which fought in the Korean War : The 24th Infantry Regiment.

Also I think Avalanche Press did a pack on the 761st TB for their Panzergrenadier game.

Eastlake North Chess Team ruled!

South was a nice school though. Model Rocketry Club met there.

 

[Eagle4ty]

One could always look for scenarios with the 100th Bn 442nd RCT as well if looking for scenarios with U.S. diversity of "racial" groups portrayed.

 

[Manilianus]

"Diversity in ASL"...amazing, this poison seeps into everything...I'm out, goodbye

The OP said explicitly that he's not some kind of woke person, but he wants to create a possible Action Pack covering actions of black minorities, thus commemorating African American units which fought in WW2. Where's the problem in that? We do have packs dedicated to Swedes or Italians, there are TPP's about I guess every other nation. USA is different from almost any European country in that it is not a country per se but a federation of various states. And those states come in with multitude of races and ethnic groups.

The beauty of ASL is that we can trace a history of a particular group/unit in the second world war history with a level of immersion not given by any other wargame that I know of. ASL was about diversity before it was cool.

 

[wrongway149]

The OP said explicitly that he's not some kind of woke person, but he wants to create a possible Action Pack covering actions of black minorities, thus commemorating African American units which fought in WW2. Where's the problem in that? We do have packs dedicated to Swedes or Italians, there are TPP's about I guess every other nation. USA is different from almost any European country in that it is not a country per se but a federation of various states. And those states come in with multitude of races and ethnic groups.

The beauty of ASL is that we can trace a history of a particular group/unit in the second world war history with a level of immersion not given by any other wargame that I know of. ASL was about diversity before it was cool.

For some, the question is: If we separate them with their own product, is that more.. or LESS inclusive?

A product on Patton's Third Army during the last six month of the war could have a few scenarios featuring the 761st TB; One on the first six months of the Korean war could do the same with the 24th IR. The subject would be covered --but without actual continued segregation.

In ASL terms- they were Americans.

JMO.

 

[Manilianus]

I see you point, although my understanding is that we're talking about diversity, not inclusion.

If someone would create a pack about, for example, Irish descent American unit, I'd also gladly check it out. It does not make those people less American or something.

Heck, we do have scenario packs about SS Volksdeutsches from Croatia (nomina sunt odiosa hmmhmm Prinz Eugen hmmhmm), about Reichsdeutsches in Wehrmacht, Alsace Germans etc. Why not for the rest of the world?

It is just a matter of fact that there were purely black units in the US and their history is no less interesting than that of purely white/mixed units.

Before the war, in Poland there were units made up (almost) exclusively from Ukrainians/Belarusians, many of citizens were Jews etc. It would be very interesting for me to see some scenarios about battlefield of such units.

Given that I'm of mixed Polish/Ukrainian/Belarusian descent, I would not feel being separated from being a Pole.

But then again, when it comes to one's heritage, it starts to get very subjective.

 

[PTY]

One could always look for scenarios with the 100th Bn 442nd RCT as well if looking for scenarios with U.S. diversity of "racial" groups portrayed.

There are indeed a few, and there is the unpublished Jeff Allen pack floating out there somewhere.

 

[21Z5M]

Could do actions on the 99th Infantry Division with the mixed platoons within a company. The US Army is Green.

 

[wrongway149]

Given that I'm of mixed Polish/Ukrainian/Belarusian descent, I would not feel being separated from being a Pole.

But then again, when it comes to one's heritage, it starts to get very subjective.

There's a reason I have done so many scenarios on the Slovak uprising

 

[wrongway149]

I'm reading a book on the Korean War at this moment for my next open box review. I'll have to make notes of these books to read when the time comes. I'm also going to work on contacting MMP about the idea.

As some have said -- get going on the scenarios and have something besides an 'idea'; MMP gets plenty of those. They don't sell very well.

Your idea for a separate pack might be a viable product with a new map or two. (personally I look at a Journal feature series, 3-5 scenarios with a supporting article as a better vehicle for this endeavor.)

If you are struggling to think of yourself as a scenario designer, read my 'Six Easy Steps' article published in one of the journals.

I'll be glad to help if I can.

 

[daniel zucker]

If I remember correctly; In March of 1945 the US Army in Europe gave black soldiers in the rear area support units, the opportunity to get into combat by making squids, and sending these squads to front line units. These small groups of units meet with a wide verity of results. some were sent back as soon as the white commanders saw them. others were given guard duty and make work details, and a very few were feed into combat immediately. Sometimes with the hope they'd be killed other as a "what the hell, maybe it will work".

The 1st ID received some of these troops and used some of them for combat and recon patrols, as well as the other afore mentioned duty's. All of these troops were withdrawn within a month and returned to there former units with a great deal of anger and reluctance causing a lot of problems for the parent units and the US Army in general.

The whole episode, organizing, initial issue and withdraw of the troops from combat was handled badly, to say the least.

 

[daniel zucker]

I think I read about this is one of the Green Books. I know that I read in a Green Book about a squid level group of black US soldiers in the Pacific who were the first "colored" soldiers to go into combat on a night patrol on one of the bigger islands that the Army was holding. They also were the first to get into a fire fight and suffered 2 KIA.

I wish I could remember where I put that information.

 

[JRKrejsa]

There's a reason I have done so many scenarios on the Slovak uprising

Here here.

 

[wrongway149]

The whole episode, organizing, initial issue and withdraw of the troops from combat was handled badly, to say the least.

A good example of why it's often not a great idea to try challenging social experiments in the middle of a crisis such as a war. You risk failure on BOTH accounts.

 

[RandyT0001]

If you are struggling to think of yourself as a scenario designer, read my 'Six Easy Steps' article published in one of the journals.

Journal 9, "A Method to the Madness: How Scenario Designs Happen", Pete Shelling, pp. 58-59, 63.

You can buy this Journal as an individual pdf or the first 10 as a bundle from Wargame Vault https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/16529/MultiMan-Publishing

If you have a Facebook account you can join the ASL Scenario Design Group. It has some resources. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1622347887792393/

 

[Actionjick]

Fish was reading a book about the 761st tank battalion ( I think that's it ) called Hit Hard ( again I think ) and one of the black tankers was from Youngstown, where Fish was from. A coworker at the Post Office had the same name and Fish asked him if he was in the 761st. He said yes and he was the G.I. in the book. Pretty cool.

I read the book decades ago but don't remember much. Might be good source material for your scenarios.

Hit Hard by David J. Williams. Not bad recollection after all those years and refreshments.

Brigadier Bacardi says to make it perfectly clear that I did not remember the author and got it from a Google search. He disapproves of me saying The Google.

 

[sswann]

Politically correct?
I don't know.
But I do remember that in Viet Nam and stateside all of my Marines were Green!
Just like my counters.

 

[Old Noob]

Daniel Zucker: 'The Employment of Negro Troops' by U. Lee is the Army Green Book you are thinking of.

 

[daniel zucker]

Daniel Zucker: 'The Employment of Negro Troops' by U. Lee is the Army Green Book you are thinking of.

that's the one

 

[pensatl1962]

George would have made a good sailor!

...as a Chief, no doubt. Would have put fear into any JO. Lol.