Advice on exiting a Landing Craft

[JoeArthur]

So, like Craig with Hatten I thought I would try the wisdom of crowds

What are peoples ideas on the best way of exiting a landing craft please?

I was playing ASL73 Hell or High Water and was smeared playing as the US. The problem was a number of 3's at -2 which at one point killed a 10-2, a half squad with a FT, and two full squads with demo charges. Yes OK what was I doing moving a big stack but what are the other choices? I lost over ten squads for no gain. Are casualties like that to be expected?

My opponent said exit them one at a time. With the landing craft in the scenario that means two squads each turn. Meaning two turns are required to empty the landing craft. To me that seemed wrong - you are just feeding the meat grinder smaller chunks and burning time to do it. It is the luck of the dice so exit them all at once and hope for average dice which with a morale of 9 you will hopefully survive.

I suppose the first squad out could go for smoke if he lived (doubtful as he would take the residual from the first shot at -2?). Then the other squad CX's into the smoke?

On another subject anyone know why landing craft were not given smoke dispensers? It would have made playing these scenarios a lot easier.............

 

[The Magnus]

On another subject anyone know why landing craft were not given smoke dispensers? It would have made playing these scenarios a lot easier.............

The landing crafts used in the Spielberg movie "Saving Ryan's Privates" had no freaking smoke dispensers. That's why .

 

[The Magnus]

I was playing ASL73 Hell or High Water and was smeared playing as the US. The problem was a number of 3's at -2 which at one point killed a 10-2, a half squad with a FT, and two full squads with demo charges. Yes OK what was I doing moving a big stack but what are the other choices? I lost over ten squads for no gain. Are casualties like that to be expected?

My opponent said exit them one at a time. With the landing craft in the scenario that means two squads each turn. Meaning two turns are required to empty the landing craft. To me that seemed wrong - you are just feeding the meat grinder smaller chunks and burning time to do it. It is the luck of the dice so exit them all at once and hope for average dice which with a morale of 9 you will hopefully survive.

I have been playing beach landings with one of my favorite opponents for half a year now. I have the same experience as you, and so does he. Depending on the beach type, benefit of "deirs" and so on, only 20-33% of the troops survive and get of the beach. However, I think we have learned some "tricks":

• Make sure that as many of the landing craft as possible unload (something) in the each turn. The defender cannot shoot everywhere.
• Depends on the map, but don't spread your landing craft onto more than 1-2 areas, on large maps eliminating the effective fire of some of the defenders.
• Have him roll high .

IMHO many of these scenarios are designed such, that if you get those 33% of the troops off the beach, you will overwhelm the defender and win.

And maybe your opponent was our common opponent in Wisconsin (?). Then it is a bitch, because he is a very good player. ?

 

[JoeArthur]

The landing crafts used in the Spielberg movie "Saving Ryan's Privates" there were no freaking smoke dispensers. That's why .

It was an idle thought Magnus. They had them on tanks so did it not occur to anyone that, you know, a landing craft is a vehicle as well and that the infantry might like some cover when they try to get off....................

 

[JoeArthur]

• Make sure that as many of the landing craft as possible unload (something) in the each turn. The defender cannot shoot everywhere.
• Depends on the map, but don't spread your landing craft onto more than 1-2 areas, on large maps eliminating the effective fire of some of the defenders.
• Have him roll high .

And maybe your opponent was our common opponent in Wisconsin (?). Then it is a bitch, because he is a very good player. ?

Magnus - good advice, thank you.

I tried to time it so that everyone got off in the same turn. The heavy surf put paid to that plan.

I spread my landing craft out into both flanks and the middle which was wrong - go straight up the middle in one solid block was the way.

Rolling high - too many threes rolled by my opponent.

It was Cpl Uhl in Brussels - we were inspired to have a go after reading some of your AAR's. I have smeared him at Vaagso, he smeared me at Hell or High water.

These beach landings are killers......................

 

[Gordon]

During operation Dragoon the Allies deployed smoke from special landing craft fitted with airplane propellers.

 

[Actionjick]

During operation Dragoon the Allies deployed smoke from special landing craft fitted with airplane propellers.

Very nice.

 

[Actionjick]

I have been playing beach landings with one of my favorite opponents for half a year now. I have the same experience as you, and so does he. Depending on the beach type, benefit of "deirs" and so on, only 20-33% of the troops survive and get of the beach. However, I think we have learned some "tricks":

• Make sure that as many of the landing craft as possible unload (something) in the each turn. The defender cannot shoot everywhere.
• Depends on the map, but don't spread your landing craft onto more than 1-2 areas, on large maps eliminating the effective fire of some of the defenders.
• Have him roll high .

IMHO many of these scenarios are designed such, that if you get those 33% of the troops off the beach, you will overwhelm the defender and win.

And maybe your opponent was our common opponent in Wisconsin (?). Then it is a bitch, because he is a very good player. ?

Nice analysis. Exiting a landing craft. If it all goes well casualties are still going to be significant. If it goes south? Perhaps just an accurate depiction of a nasty reality.

 

[Actionjick]

I have been playing beach landings with one of my favorite opponents for half a year now. I have the same experience as you, and so does he. Depending on the beach type, benefit of "deirs" and so on, only 20-33% of the troops survive and get of the beach. However, I think we have learned some "tricks":

• Make sure that as many of the landing craft as possible unload (something) in the each turn. The defender cannot shoot everywhere.
• Depends on the map, but don't spread your landing craft onto more than 1-2 areas, on large maps eliminating the effective fire of some of the defenders.
• Have him roll high .

IMHO many of these scenarios are designed such, that if you get those 33% of the troops off the beach, you will overwhelm the defender and win.

And maybe your opponent was our common opponent in Wisconsin (?). Then it is a bitch, because he is a very good player. ?

Btw major kudos for repeated playings of beach landings. My never ending recommendations for repetition is most likely becoming tiresome but it is the best way to learn IMHO. Well done to you and your opponent. Actiojack and Captain Bacchus highly approve!!????

 

[Michael Dorosh]

It was an idle thought Magnus. They had them on tanks so did it not occur to anyone that, you know, a landing craft is a vehicle as well and that the infantry might like some cover when they try to get off....................

The idea was that heavy fire support would prevent the need for smoke. They wanted troops in good command and control, which was done by visual. It worked on the Canadian and British beaches, when DD tanks came ashore and helped clean out the beach defences. Everyone knows what happened at OMAHA - the heavy fire support was ineffective and the DDs weren't able to help. The terrain was also atrocious. The lesson learned at Dieppe was apparently heavy fire support, not smoke.

 

[Michael R]

I suppose the first squad out could go for smoke if he lived (doubtful as he would take the residual from the first shot at -2?). Then the other squad CX's into the smoke?

Yes that squad would take the residual, but I believe it would benefit from the smoke. If I am wrong, at least the next squad would benefit, but that squad cannot CX. Passengers cannot Assault Move or Double Time when they unload.

 

[Cpl Uhl]

Yes, that's right and with Heavy Surf, unloading MF are doubled, so if the first squad unloads for 2MF and pops smoke, no one else can exit (3MF to do so). So much for that tactic.

I still think the way to go is unload one at a time and eventually someone is going to survive and get into CC or otherwise silence/dilute the fire. In this one the Japanese were all lined up next to the beach so the advance phase got the US into their midst. But by then there was nothing to follow up with and a counterattack would have finished off the infiltrators.

 

[JoeArthur]

So much for that tactic.

I should think before I open my mouth

Given the advice from Magnus I would be happy to give this another go as the US Cpl

 

[JoeArthur]

During operation Dragoon the Allies deployed smoke from special landing craft fitted with airplane propellers.

Many thanks for the information. Do you know of any pictures of those things please?

Wikipedia also mentions this which looks fun:

Operation Dragoon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LCIs leading the first wave of landing craft fired rockets to explode land mines on the beaches to be used by following troops.[25]

 

[JoeArthur]

with Heavy Surf

That heavy surf means that the landing craft, if they sit there for more than one turn, could unbeach? They have to roll in the Movement AND Advance phase G13.442? (I think I did not roll in the Movement phase - apologies)

Which is another risk to not dumping everyone down in one go?

 

[Gordon]

The idea was that heavy fire support would prevent the need for smoke. They wanted troops in good command and control, which was done by visual. It worked on the Canadian and British beaches, when DD tanks came ashore and helped clean out the beach defences. Everyone knows what happened at OMAHA - the heavy fire support was ineffective and the DDs weren't able to help. The terrain was also atrocious. The lesson learned at Dieppe was apparently heavy fire support, not smoke.

Yes, and the Americans on Omaha made the mistake of attacking INTO the heavily defended beach exit areas, rather than infiltrating around them and then capturing them from behind.

 

[Michael R]

ASL is different from real life. I believe in ASL that smoke on the beach is more helpful than tanks on the beach, depending of course on the anti-tank assets of the defender.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

ASL is different from real life. I believe in ASL that smoke on the beach is more helpful than tanks on the beach, depending of course on the anti-tank assets of the defender.

Because ASL has no command and control rules. That is not the case in an actual beach landing...

 

[von Marwitz]

It was Cpl Uhl in Brussels - we were inspired to have a go after reading some of your AAR's. I have smeared him at Vaagso, he smeared me at Hell or High water.

A nice guy, I know him. Please tell him greetings from von Marwitz.

You can also tell him that you've heard that he can't play PTO... ?
But don't blame me if you get stuck in the Jungle with him for a couple of scenarios afterwards.

Cheers,
von Marwitz

 

[Old Noob]

In regards to Omaha Beach, the Americans made the decision to forego the Funnies, trusting in DD tanks and [hopefully] good support fire and aerial bombing
to punch a hole in the beach defenses. Unfortunately, the DDs were launched too far out in heavy seas and swamped, the naval fire support was too brief and
inaccurate {destroyers had to come in very close to knock out gun emplacements later in the morning} and the aerial bombing was delayed to avoid friendly fire
and ended up hitting inland of the cliffs. Add in a current encountered on the run in which shifted the landing teams two or three beach sectors, and you have sheer
utter chaos on the part of the 1st and 29th Infantry Division landing teams. But once they got their act together and punched through, the German defenses could
be rolled up from the flank.