Advancing & Crest Status (A4.7 and B20.93)

[Ed Caswell]

A unit in Crest Status on one side of a depression hex may advance out of Crest Status in that same hex (i.e., INTO that same depression hex)and into an ADJACENT depression hex per B20.93 and the B20.93 Example. My question is could that unit also gain Crest Status in that new hex as part of that advance? My judgement is "yes" because the ASLRBv2 B20.93 Example shows a unit advancing out of Crest Status on one side of a depression and entering a new hex on the directly opposite side of the depression. It seems highly inconsistent a unit could not gain Crest Status in that same hex but on the opposite side of the depression if it is allowed to move into an entirely new hex on the opposite side of the depression. I see nothing in A4.7 that prevents gaining Crest Status in any of the hexes advanced INTO in the B20.93 Example as part of that same advance. Furthermore, Crest Status is not a different Location in a hex per A2.8.

This is my very first try at posting a question/new thread. Thanks in advance for the responses.

 

[Ole Boe]

A unit in Crest Status on one side of a depression hex may advance out of Crest Status in that same hex (i.e., INTO that same depression hex)and into an ADJACENT depression hex per B20.93 and the B20.93 Example. My question is could that unit also gain Crest Status in that new hex as part of that advance?

No.

My judgement is "yes" because the ASLRBv2 B20.93 Example shows a unit advancing out of Crest Status on one side of a depression and entering a new hex on the directly opposite side of the depression. It seems highly inconsistent a unit could not gain Crest Status in that same hex but on the opposite side of the depression if it is allowed to move into an entirely new hex on the opposite side of the depression. I see nothing in A4.7 that prevents gaining Crest Status in any of the hexes advanced INTO in the B20.93 Example as part of that same advance. Furthermore, Crest Status is not a different Location in a hex per A2.8.

What you have overlooked, is the first sentence of B20.93: "Infantry may not move directly from one Crest status to another (even in the APh). "

I understand this to mean that a unit starting its APh in Crest status can never end the same APh in a different Crest status.

P.S. Welcome :toast:

 

[Ed Caswell]

I read the first sentence of B20.93 to mean a unit cannot change Crest Status by simply being placed in a new one (i.e., "leaping" to the opposite side of the depression for instance). Rather, the unit must move/advance out of Crest Status INTO the depression before it can move/advance to a new hex, etc. MFs/movement path must be taken into account. Another reason I believe Crest Status can be gained is a unit can advance from under an entrenchment counter in one hex, uphill to an ADJACENT hex and enter an entrenchment counter therein, all as one advance. Additionally, the first sentence uses the word "move" and I find it difficult to accept that a unit with a Ldr (6 or 8 MFs) cannot leave Crest Status (in the MPh), move a couple hexes and enter Crest Status somewhere else, even in an entirely different depression given sufficient MFs. Chapter F allows this for vehicles in the MPH (i.e., you can go from one Crest Status to another but you have to go through the complete movement/MP expenditure process to move out of one Crest Status and into another.

 

[WaterRabbit]

I completely agree with your reasoning and I would all it in a game vs me. I have tried to find something that would directly support this. However, I cannot find any Q&A or rules errata on MMP's site and Sam doesn't have a Perry Sez about it on his site.

A strict reading of the rules is that Infantry cannot move move directly from one Crest to another, even if in the same hex. I think your best bet here is to solicit a Perry Sez on this.

 

[Treadhead]

No.

What you have overlooked, is the first sentence of B20.93: "Infantry may not move directly from one Crest status to another (even in the APh). "

I understand this to mean that a unit starting its APh in Crest status can never end the same APh in a different Crest status.

I have to disagree with you here.

What I take this to mean is that one may not shift from a Crest counter on one side of the gully, directly to a Crest counter on the opposite side of the gully, without first entering INTO the gully.

This is important for MF purposes. You have to pay the appropriate MF costs for entering the Gully from a Crest status first, then pay the MF costs for subsequently re-entering Crest status. Such an Advance could result in a CX under certain circumstances, with all the attendant restrictions and prohibitions.

That's the real meaning of that sentence.

Ed's reasoning was perfect, and I see no reason to bother Perry with this one.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[Treadhead]

A strict reading of the rules is that Infantry cannot move move directly from one Crest to another, even if in the same hex. I think your best bet here is to solicit a Perry Sez on this.

I don't agree that a "strict reading" means that.

IMO, "move directly" means one cannot move from one Crest status directly to another Crest status. To enter Crest status always requires one to be in a position to enter Crest status from either a) IN the gully, or b) when entering the gully hex through a non-Gully hexside.

Thus, when on a Crest status already, the only way place yourself in a position to enter a different Crest status on the opposite side of the same Gully is by entering INTO the Gully, and then entering the new Crest status.

In other words, you may not "move directly" from one Crest status to another; you must take that intermediate step.

It's as simple as that. I hardly feel it is necessary to bother Perry with it.

Regards,
Bruce Bakken

 

[WaterRabbit]

Look, I've got no dog in this fight. If is was the TD and this came up in a tournament, I would rule in your favor. However, some people try to twist the rules all out of shape and don't apply the reasonableness test. (and by reasonable, I mean within the logic of the rules). For these people, you might have to have a Perry Sez to pacify them. Otherwise, you could be in for a pointless argument.

As Ed pointed out, if you can move from crest status, into the gully and into a hex on the other side during the Advance Phase, there is no reason you couldn't just stop in crest status on the other side of the gully -- especially since it costs the same MF.

However, if you tried to leave crest status, enter into an ADJACENT gully hex and assume crest status there in the APh, we might have a discussion on that point since that is disallowed by B20.91.