Adjacent and factory walls

Discussion in 'ASL Rules & Errata' started by SFiedler, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. SFiedler

    SFiedler Active Member

    938
    Feb 1, 2010
    Vellinge, Sweden
    In Red Barricades CG can the broken Russian squad rout through P16 to P17 and beyond (O16 has 150MM OBA)?

    upload_2017-9-13_18-6-2.png

    /S
     
  2. bendizoid

    bendizoid Official ***** Dickweed

    Sep 11, 2006
    Viet Nam
    No, if there was no breach there then it could.
     
  3. clubby

    clubby Active Member

    Dec 27, 2015
    CA
    The broken Russian squad can't rout through P16? I'm not sure I get why it couldn't? And where would the breach be?
     
  4. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    The 8-3-8 is Known to the broken unit in P15 due to the breach on the P15/Q16 hexisde. A broken unit may not rout from ADJACENT to ADJACENT of the same KEU. However P16 is not ADJACENT to Q16. The 8-3-8 could advance from Q16 to P16, but ADJACENT also requires that a LOS exist [Index]. The broken unit may rout through P16. It may even end its rout there, although that is asking for trouble.

    JR
     
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  5. bendizoid

    bendizoid Official ***** Dickweed

    Sep 11, 2006
    Viet Nam
    Since he sees a german unit in Q16 he can't rout Adjacent to it.
     
  6. clubby

    clubby Active Member

    Dec 27, 2015
    CA
    He's no longer ADJACENT to it in P16 because no LOS exists. If there was a breach across P16/Q16, then he couldn't.

     
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  7. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    The broken unit may not rout ADJACENT [A10.51], but may rout adjacent. P16 is adjacent to Q16 but not ADJACENT due to the lack of LOS.

    JR
     
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  8. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    This.

    von Marwitz
     
  9. bendizoid

    bendizoid Official ***** Dickweed

    Sep 11, 2006
    Viet Nam
    Sometimes I hate this game
     
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  10. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
  11. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    The ADJACENT rule that kills me is placing DCs. Sometimes you have two ADJACENT hexes that contain (typically +3) SMOKE. Under the cover of such a fine SMOKE screen you'd like to place a DC from one of those SMOKE hexes to the other, perhaps to breach a fortified building. The definition of ADJACENT disregards SMOKE in determining LOS, so now you're feeling pretty good. But the last sentence of A23.3 says, a "unit may not Place (or Throw; 23.5) a DC in an adjacent Location out of its LOS." Grr.

    JR
     
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  12. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    A up to now so obviously quiet 'Dummy' Throwing a DC out of a 2nd level window of a Smoked Building into a Smoked street where a killer-stack wants to cross into your building feeling so safe is still fun, though... :happy:

    Up there, the Thrower is not harmed by the blast IIRC and since normal Smoke rises only up to Level 2, he is not penalized for throwing his DC out of the Smoke either, I believe.

    von Marwitz
     
  13. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    A unit attacking to a lower level is affected by SMOKE in the hex if it is at the top level of that SMOKE, i.e. a unit at level two will be affected by Smoke that rises to level two in its hex when it attacks lower. See the A24.4 example. Such a unit is not considered to be firing out of SMOKE. A unit at level two could not throw a DC to level zero if both its hex and the adjacent hex were in +3 SMOKE.

    JR
     
  14. clubby

    clubby Active Member

    Dec 27, 2015
    CA
    It sounds like he's talking about throwing a DC from level 2 in a hex that is smoked to an adjacent hex that is not smoked. No penalty for throwing out of smoke, still has LOS.
     
  15. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    Not if all the SMOKE is +3. Even though the unit on level two is not IN SMOKE, it gets the hindrance for any SMOKE in-hex when attacking a lower level.

    JR
     
  16. clubby

    clubby Active Member

    Dec 27, 2015
    CA
    DC.JPG

    Are you saying the situation above that I described is affected by the Smoke for throwing a DC? Looking at the DC rules again, does Smoke even apply to DC attacks?

     
  17. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    SMOKE would cancel FFMO if the unit was moving. In my example both the building hex and the target hex were in +3 SMOKE. LOS would be blocked in that case.

    JR
     
  18. clubby

    clubby Active Member

    Dec 27, 2015
    CA
    Sorry, I thought you were commenting on VM's post which didn't seem to fit what he posted. I guess we're talking about two different situations here.
     
  19. jrv

    jrv Vare, legiones redde!

    May 25, 2005
    Teutoburger Wald
    Part of his post: "A up to now so obviously quiet 'Dummy' Throwing a DC out of a 2nd level window of a Smoked Building into a Smoked street where a killer-stack wants to cross into your building feeling so safe is still fun, though".

    Both the thrower's hex and the target hex have SMOKE. Assuming it is +3 SMOKE, there is no LOS from one hex to the other even though the thrower on the second level is not in a Location with SMOKE. The thrower is just above the in-hex SMOKE and so its Hindrance DRM applies to attacks to lower levels. The total Hindrance DRM is +6. LOS is blocked. If any of the SMOKE DRMs is < +3 there is LOS, but the case I was working with is an OBA SMOKE mission, so all SMOKE will be the same, and I was thinking of the initial FFE.

    JR
     
  20. von Marwitz

    von Marwitz Well-Known Member

    Nov 25, 2010
    Kraut Corner
    Hmm, wasn't there a Perry Sez on some very similar situation not so long ago?

    Edit:
    This was the one I had in mind (which refers to 'diagonal LOS' and SMOKE Hindrance).
    http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/smoke-and-diagonal-los.130276/

    With regard to my prior remark:
    I was thinking of SMOKE hindrances <6 (or a +3 SMOKE and a +2 SMOKE in other words). I should have been more precise.

    von Marwitz
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017

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