Adjacent and factory walls

clubby

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#3
The broken Russian squad can't rout through P16? I'm not sure I get why it couldn't? And where would the breach be?
 

jrv

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#4
The 8-3-8 is Known to the broken unit in P15 due to the breach on the P15/Q16 hexisde. A broken unit may not rout from ADJACENT to ADJACENT of the same KEU. However P16 is not ADJACENT to Q16. The 8-3-8 could advance from Q16 to P16, but ADJACENT also requires that a LOS exist [Index]. The broken unit may rout through P16. It may even end its rout there, although that is asking for trouble.

JR
 

clubby

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#6
He's no longer ADJACENT to it in P16 because no LOS exists. If there was a breach across P16/Q16, then he couldn't.

10.51 ...nor, if ADJACENT to a Known armed enemy unit, may it rout into another hex ADJACENT to that same enemy unit
ADJACENT (Locations [and units in them] are considered ADJACENT if any Infantry unit in one Location could conceivably—ignoring any enemy presence—advance into the other during the APh and a LOS exists between the two Locations
 

jrv

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#11
Sometimes I hate this game
The ADJACENT rule that kills me is placing DCs. Sometimes you have two ADJACENT hexes that contain (typically +3) SMOKE. Under the cover of such a fine SMOKE screen you'd like to place a DC from one of those SMOKE hexes to the other, perhaps to breach a fortified building. The definition of ADJACENT disregards SMOKE in determining LOS, so now you're feeling pretty good. But the last sentence of A23.3 says, a "unit may not Place (or Throw; 23.5) a DC in an adjacent Location out of its LOS." Grr.

JR
 

von Marwitz

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#12
The ADJACENT rule that kills me is placing DCs. Sometimes you have two ADJACENT hexes that contain (typically +3) SMOKE. Under the cover of such a fine SMOKE screen you'd like to place a DC from one of those SMOKE hexes to the other, perhaps to breach a fortified building. The definition of ADJACENT disregards SMOKE in determining LOS, so now you're feeling pretty good. But the last sentence of A23.3 says, a "unit may not Place (or Throw; 23.5) a DC in an adjacent Location out of its LOS." Grr.

JR
A up to now so obviously quiet 'Dummy' Throwing a DC out of a 2nd level window of a Smoked Building into a Smoked street where a killer-stack wants to cross into your building feeling so safe is still fun, though... :happy:

Up there, the Thrower is not harmed by the blast IIRC and since normal Smoke rises only up to Level 2, he is not penalized for throwing his DC out of the Smoke either, I believe.

von Marwitz
 

jrv

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#13
A unit attacking to a lower level is affected by SMOKE in the hex if it is at the top level of that SMOKE, i.e. a unit at level two will be affected by Smoke that rises to level two in its hex when it attacks lower. See the A24.4 example. Such a unit is not considered to be firing out of SMOKE. A unit at level two could not throw a DC to level zero if both its hex and the adjacent hex were in +3 SMOKE.

JR
 

clubby

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#14
It sounds like he's talking about throwing a DC from level 2 in a hex that is smoked to an adjacent hex that is not smoked. No penalty for throwing out of smoke, still has LOS.
 

jrv

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#15
It sounds like he's talking about throwing a DC from level 2 in a hex that is smoked to an adjacent hex that is not smoked. No penalty for throwing out of smoke, still has LOS.
Not if all the SMOKE is +3. Even though the unit on level two is not IN SMOKE, it gets the hindrance for any SMOKE in-hex when attacking a lower level.

JR
 

clubby

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#16
DC.JPG

Are you saying the situation above that I described is affected by the Smoke for throwing a DC? Looking at the DC rules again, does Smoke even apply to DC attacks?

23.1 A DC is a SW which explodes in the target Location with 30 FP factors on the IFT [EXC: Set DC; 23.7]. It is not subject to FP modification for PBF/TPBF, use in the AFPh, or for any form of Area Fire other than concealment at the time the DC is Thrown/operably-Placed (or detonated if Set). Concealment-caused Area Fire does not apply when determining the possibility of Rubble Creation (B24.11). A DC attack may not combine FP with any other unit. The defender's (or thrower's) TEM (not LOS Hindrances) applies to the resolution of the attack [EXC: hexside TEM is NA if DC Placed/Set] but leadership modifiers do not.
 

jrv

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#17
View attachment 2823

Are you saying the situation above that I described is affected by the Smoke for throwing a DC? Looking at the DC rules again, does Smoke even apply to DC attacks?
SMOKE would cancel FFMO if the unit was moving. In my example both the building hex and the target hex were in +3 SMOKE. LOS would be blocked in that case.

JR
 

clubby

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#18
Sorry, I thought you were commenting on VM's post which didn't seem to fit what he posted. I guess we're talking about two different situations here.
 

jrv

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#19
Sorry, I thought you were commenting on VM's post which didn't seem to fit what he posted. I guess we're talking about two different situations here.
Part of his post: "A up to now so obviously quiet 'Dummy' Throwing a DC out of a 2nd level window of a Smoked Building into a Smoked street where a killer-stack wants to cross into your building feeling so safe is still fun, though".

Both the thrower's hex and the target hex have SMOKE. Assuming it is +3 SMOKE, there is no LOS from one hex to the other even though the thrower on the second level is not in a Location with SMOKE. The thrower is just above the in-hex SMOKE and so its Hindrance DRM applies to attacks to lower levels. The total Hindrance DRM is +6. LOS is blocked. If any of the SMOKE DRMs is < +3 there is LOS, but the case I was working with is an OBA SMOKE mission, so all SMOKE will be the same, and I was thinking of the initial FFE.

JR
 

von Marwitz

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#20
A unit at level two could not throw a DC to level zero if both its hex and the adjacent hex were in +3 SMOKE.
Hmm, wasn't there a Perry Sez on some very similar situation not so long ago?

Edit:
This was the one I had in mind (which refers to 'diagonal LOS' and SMOKE Hindrance).
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/index.php?threads/smoke-and-diagonal-los.130276/

With regard to my prior remark:
I was thinking of SMOKE hindrances <6 (or a +3 SMOKE and a +2 SMOKE in other words). I should have been more precise.

von Marwitz
 
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