"Action Spots:" CMx1 vs. CMx2

[Palantir]

I had this "action spot" LOS occur in a CMAK game I'm playing. (See screenshot)

Note that I can get LOS next to, in front of & even THRU the 1/2 Track to the building but I can't lock on the target. :angry:

View attachment 32168

Is this problem the same or worse in CMx2 with their "action spots?" I know about the obstructed corner LOS issue in CMSF.

(If my weapon was of larger caliber I'd just target next to it & go for a disabling shot)

 

[thewood]

With vehicles it migh better, I never really noticed because I don't play urban maps. The real gray area is squads...I have found it is no better in CM2 and may be worse in some ways because that last guy in your squad can be fired on but you can't fire back. Where as in CM1, the squad is either behind it or it isn't.

btw, what size are using for unit display. It looks big. It may be just perspective.

 

[thewood]

Also, I am not sure CM1 uses action spots. I think what you are seeing is the disconnect between the visual model and the point at which LOS is traced to the unit. It is also a factor of the resolution of buildings model. It seems the building sticks out more than the visual shows.

In CM2, the models and visuals appear more accurate. Its the 8m action spot that is used to reduce CPU load that causes some of the disconnects. It has gotten a lot better since release, buts main disconnect an 8m action spot with 1:1 squadsthat have members hovering at the edge of the spot.

 

[Redwolf]

I had this "action spot" LOS occur in a CMAK game I'm playing. (See screenshot)

Note that I can get LOS next to, in front of & even THRU the 1/2 Track to the building but I can't lock on the target. :angry:

View attachment 32168

Is this problem the same or worse in CMx2 with their "action spots?" I know about the obstructed corner LOS issue in CMSF.

(If my weapon was of larger caliber I'd just target next to it & go for a disabling shot)

The vehicle has a height of zero. It is a point on the ground. The building does not, buildings in CMx1 have a height.

So you can have LOS to a building without having LOS to the ground around it, but the same isn't true for vehicles.

This isn't an action spot issue, it is an issue that for combat calculations all units in CMx1 have zero height.

 

[junk2drive]

Do you have unit size set to realistic?

 

[Palantir]

btw, what size are using for unit display. It looks big. It may be just perspective.

It's perspective.
Scale was "Realistic."
The 1/2 T grows up to meet the balcony as it scales up.

View attachment 32169

 

[Palantir]

The vehicle has a height of zero. ... it is an issue that for combat calculations all units in CMx1 have zero height.

Then whats the point of listing "Silhouette" size for vehicles?
{And yes thats the unit trying to target the UK 1/2T just don't tell KG-Jag...}

View attachment 32170

 

[thewood]

I didn't know that about the unit height of zero. It makes sense. But I don't think that is what is going on here. I don't think height has anything to do with it. I think the LOS just comes too close to the edge of the building if you try to get to the center of the AFV. It is crossing some threshold before it gets to the visual corner of the building.

 

[thewood]

I think the size is only for spotting and a hit calculation. It is just a generic number for that AFV to give a relative size.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I think the size is only for spotting and a hit calculation. It is just a generic number for that AFV to give a relative size.

I believe this is right; for the "to hit" calculation - a King Tiger is easier to hit than a Jeep.

 

[Redwolf]

Then whats the point of listing "Silhouette" size for vehicles?
{And yes thats the unit trying to target the UK 1/2T just don't tell KG-Jag...}

View attachment 32170

This is for the probability to hit it.

There is no probability to spot anything in CMx1, when the conditions are met things are always spotted.

 

[thewood]

Are you sure about the probability to spot. I know about the borg spotting, but the FOW has some variability involved, I am pretty sure. I'll have to test that.

 

[Redwolf]

Are you sure about the probability to spot. I know about the borg spotting, but the FOW has some variability involved, I am pretty sure. I'll have to test that.

This is easy to test. Set up some standing observers in some woods. Move a bunch of things towards them, such as sharpshooters but it really doesn't matter. Note the distance at which they are spotted. The distance is always precisely the same.

Another test is observing a road between two lines of buildings, where some building "pairs" (left and right of the road) are closer to you and some are farther away. Now walk some units from the right row of houses to the left, crossing the street that you observe. You will notice that they are always instantly spotted at the appropriate distance and never if they are a single meter more out.

 

[KenRich]

The vehicle has a height of zero. It is a point on the ground. The building does not, buildings in CMx1 have a height.

So you can have LOS to a building without having LOS to the ground around it, but the same isn't true for vehicles.

This isn't an action spot issue, it is an issue that for combat calculations all units in CMx1 have zero height.

I don't believe this is correct, otherwise how would the game be able to have vehicles that are hulldown so that you can only fire at their upper hull/turret or upper hull (if an assault gun)? From my understanding a vehicle has 2 heights and therefore 2 points to aim at compared with just the one for infanty, AT guns etc.

KR

 

[Sgt_Kelly]

It's AT guns and the like that have zero height, leading to the unhittable gun bug / exploit.

When you target an AFV the end of the targetting line comes up off the ground and you can sometimes target AFVs moving through brush or wheat while not being able to target the ground underneath them.

 

[Redwolf]

Hmmm, makes sense now that you say it. If it has an upper part then the game seems to use one point above ground for LOS.

The problem with the halftrack in the picture might then have been that it doesn't have two parts. Can't go hulldown -> one LOS spot only.

 

[slm]

If I can remember correctly line of sight calculations were improved in one of the CMSF patches quite a while ago. I cannot remember exactly how it works, but units have at least 3 if not 5 different height categories. Even infantry has at least 2.

 

[thewood]

I think AFvs still only have two heights. Infantry has [rone, kneeling, and standing.

 

[slm]

It seems there might be 3 AFV heights (See BF's post):
http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=83997&highlight=elos&page=3

 

[junk2drive]

Found this in the similar threads at the bottom.